One way or the other this was a fantastic effort by both Paul and Toby....I applaud you both and everyone else involved
Best of balance.....even in the heat.
Neo
Junior Coaching Day. Pacific Park 7th February 2009. UPDATE
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- Neo
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Junior Coaching Day. Pacific Park 7th February 2009. UPDATE
"Nothing more and nothing less than the vision of success"..... Ryan Leech
"TRIALS....It's not life or death....It's much more serious than that!!".....
"TRIALS....It's not life or death....It's much more serious than that!!".....
- Gary B
- Expert participant
- Posts: 227
- Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 8:05 pm
- Bike: Gasser ! TLR 250, TY
- Club: Wollongong MCC
- Location: Kiama NSW (God's Country)
- Location: Illawarra NSW
Re: Junior Coaching Day. Pacific Park 7th February 2009. UPDATE
The Junior Coaching day that was to be at Pacific park on Feb 7th was postponed due to the extreme heat.
The day has been re-sheduled for Saturday March 7th at Kiama.
The day will now take place at Les Boniface's property "Belmont" at Kiama.
Camping will be available for anyone wishing to stay overnight as Wollongong MCC will hold their first Club Trial of 2009 on the Sunday.
Any enquires about the coaching day should contact Toby Coleman.
If you need directions please contact Gary Boniface garyboniface@bigpond.com
or 0419-545777
The day has been re-sheduled for Saturday March 7th at Kiama.
The day will now take place at Les Boniface's property "Belmont" at Kiama.
Camping will be available for anyone wishing to stay overnight as Wollongong MCC will hold their first Club Trial of 2009 on the Sunday.
Any enquires about the coaching day should contact Toby Coleman.
If you need directions please contact Gary Boniface garyboniface@bigpond.com
or 0419-545777
Gary B. from Wollongong MCC.
Now the Old Man in "Team Boniface"
Now the Old Man in "Team Boniface"
Re: Junior Coaching Day. Pacific Park 7th February 2009. UPDATE
I have received written & had perceived criticism from fellow riders over my advice on Hot Weather guidlines for the last Junior Coaching Day. I would just like others to be aware of my side of the decision. Here is my response to the written criticism.
My response:
Whether you were aware of it or not I was ask to be a coach & 1st Aid Officer at the Coaching Day, to which I agreed to. I was also a parent of one of the participants.
I am the Sports Nurse at the Australian Institute of Sport (AIS) & am a Sports Nurse with Sports Medicine Australia (SMA). I have been actively involved in 1st Aid for 30 years for hockey, softball, cycling, mountain biking, mototrials, motocross & enduro. At local, national & international levels. I am also the Sports Nurse for Motorcycling Australia (MA) at all their AIS based camps. I also have coached at some of these camps.
Part of my duty as 1st Aid Officer & coach, & indeed parent was to assess risk management for the day. I had secured sample electrolyte sachets to hand out to the riders & prepared a talk to inform them about looking after themselves in hot weather. However, when I became aware that there was a forecast for heatwave conditions of 42 degrees, I needed to refer to the guidelines for Hot Weather from SMA. May I remind you these are International Guidelines based on the latest research & developed by experts in Sports Medicine & Science.
I also consulted with Associate Professor Kieran Fallan, Faculty of Medicine ANU, MD(ANU), MBBS(Hons), MExSpSc, MHEd, FACSP, Head of AIS Department of Sports Medicine; who firmly agreed this would be well out of the guidelines. Also, I just happened to be presenting a lecture at the Australian College of Sports Physicians Registrar Conference at the AIS on Thursday. So, I was able to talk with many Sports Doctors from Australia & New Zealand, who all insisted it was not safe & the risk of harm for thermal injury was extreme.
I also organised & ran the first junior coaching day for trials 2 years ago, I know what it involves & just how much effort the kids & coaches put in, it is a huge & exhausting day even in normal conditions. MA initiated running these days to decrease the risk of harm to our juniors by teaching them the skills of their sport. Of which I strongly support. Even for the more advanced riders, they actually need to be out there riding & being coached. This is not just a formality to sign off their book as suggested in a previous email.
My understanding of my sport comes from 35 years of being a rider at local, national & international (Australian Rep) events. I feel I could adequately explain what the event entailed.
So, to suggest that my colleagues & my advice was “beaurocratic @#$%” or from experts who have “little understanding of our sport, or what we are doing”; is totally unfounded.
Not to mention, that Australia experienced one of our darkest days in history because of the extreme weather conditions, has to indicate the conditions that were being considered.
I have actually been the victim of heat exhaustion while practising before the 2000 Australian Trials Championships in Queensland. I was very lucky to come away with only a scar on my ear after collapsing off my bike, in rugged terrain & where no one could see me. So, I also have the experience of how quickly heat injury can come on & affect you.
Please find below the guidelines that I followed to help you understand the potential consequences avoided by the action taken.
I took guidance from the Wet Bulb Globe Temperature (WBGT) index. The WBGT is particularly useful for hot, humid days.
WBGT Risk of thermal injury Recommended management for sports activities
<20 Low Heat illness can occur in distance running.
Caution over-motivation.
21 - 25 Moderate to high Increase vigilance.
Caution over-motivation.
Moderate early pre-season training intensity and
duration. Take more breaks.
26 - 29 High - Very high Limit intensity. Limit duration to less than 60 minutes
per session.
30 and above Extreme Consider postponement to a cooler part of the day or
cancellation (allow swimming).
N.B. It is important to watch for unusual “heatwave” conditions. This is one situation where there maybe a greater danger of heat illness.
I monitored the WBGT on the Saturday, when I was home, during the times the event would have been run & are as follows.
10am = 28
11am = 29.8
1pm = 33.1
2pm = 33.4
3pm = 32.9
Which confirmed by concerns & advice.
Other factors that would have increased the risk to our charges, are:
1)Duration of the event – the event was of 5 hours duration
2)Time of day – scheduled from 10-3pm, the hottest part of the day
3)Protective clothing – the need to wear protective clothing
4)Acclimatisation of the participant – it is recommended to exercise for one hour/day for 7-10 days to prepare for safe exercise in the heat & kids acclimatise slower than adults.
5)Fitness level/athletic ability of participant – some of the kids are overweight &/or unconditioned
6)Age & gender of participants – kids are especially at risk in the heat as their sweating mechanism, essential for effective cooling, is poorly developed & kids bodies absorb heat more rapidly in hot conditions. We also had several female riders who may have been at greater risk.
I know you had some measures in place which I commend you for but because of the extreme forecast you had not considered other factors which are recommended:
1) It is important to have trained personnel available to manage heat injuries
and designated recovery areas for patients.
2) In situations where heat problems may be expected, an experienced medical
practitioner should be present.
Because Heat stroke is potentially life threatening.
And that is probably my whole point.
Anyhow, I rang MNSW to see exactly how many juniors were disadvantaged & one only rider has required an exemption, which of course MNSW granted, considering the situation. Staff at MNSW were also surprised & disappointed at the criticism directed at me for my advice on this event, as I was.
Also, over the weekend there were 5 motorcycling events cancelled, 3 being junior events, because of the conditions. In fact, many sporting events were cancelled or rescheduled. Including mountain biking, road cycling, softball, basketball, rowing, even the International between Italy & the Matildas due for live TV coverage; all putting the welfare of their participants first.
I rest my case.
Bev Anderson-Tranter RN, RM, NIC(Cert).
My response:
Whether you were aware of it or not I was ask to be a coach & 1st Aid Officer at the Coaching Day, to which I agreed to. I was also a parent of one of the participants.
I am the Sports Nurse at the Australian Institute of Sport (AIS) & am a Sports Nurse with Sports Medicine Australia (SMA). I have been actively involved in 1st Aid for 30 years for hockey, softball, cycling, mountain biking, mototrials, motocross & enduro. At local, national & international levels. I am also the Sports Nurse for Motorcycling Australia (MA) at all their AIS based camps. I also have coached at some of these camps.
Part of my duty as 1st Aid Officer & coach, & indeed parent was to assess risk management for the day. I had secured sample electrolyte sachets to hand out to the riders & prepared a talk to inform them about looking after themselves in hot weather. However, when I became aware that there was a forecast for heatwave conditions of 42 degrees, I needed to refer to the guidelines for Hot Weather from SMA. May I remind you these are International Guidelines based on the latest research & developed by experts in Sports Medicine & Science.
I also consulted with Associate Professor Kieran Fallan, Faculty of Medicine ANU, MD(ANU), MBBS(Hons), MExSpSc, MHEd, FACSP, Head of AIS Department of Sports Medicine; who firmly agreed this would be well out of the guidelines. Also, I just happened to be presenting a lecture at the Australian College of Sports Physicians Registrar Conference at the AIS on Thursday. So, I was able to talk with many Sports Doctors from Australia & New Zealand, who all insisted it was not safe & the risk of harm for thermal injury was extreme.
I also organised & ran the first junior coaching day for trials 2 years ago, I know what it involves & just how much effort the kids & coaches put in, it is a huge & exhausting day even in normal conditions. MA initiated running these days to decrease the risk of harm to our juniors by teaching them the skills of their sport. Of which I strongly support. Even for the more advanced riders, they actually need to be out there riding & being coached. This is not just a formality to sign off their book as suggested in a previous email.
My understanding of my sport comes from 35 years of being a rider at local, national & international (Australian Rep) events. I feel I could adequately explain what the event entailed.
So, to suggest that my colleagues & my advice was “beaurocratic @#$%” or from experts who have “little understanding of our sport, or what we are doing”; is totally unfounded.
Not to mention, that Australia experienced one of our darkest days in history because of the extreme weather conditions, has to indicate the conditions that were being considered.
I have actually been the victim of heat exhaustion while practising before the 2000 Australian Trials Championships in Queensland. I was very lucky to come away with only a scar on my ear after collapsing off my bike, in rugged terrain & where no one could see me. So, I also have the experience of how quickly heat injury can come on & affect you.
Please find below the guidelines that I followed to help you understand the potential consequences avoided by the action taken.
I took guidance from the Wet Bulb Globe Temperature (WBGT) index. The WBGT is particularly useful for hot, humid days.
WBGT Risk of thermal injury Recommended management for sports activities
<20 Low Heat illness can occur in distance running.
Caution over-motivation.
21 - 25 Moderate to high Increase vigilance.
Caution over-motivation.
Moderate early pre-season training intensity and
duration. Take more breaks.
26 - 29 High - Very high Limit intensity. Limit duration to less than 60 minutes
per session.
30 and above Extreme Consider postponement to a cooler part of the day or
cancellation (allow swimming).
N.B. It is important to watch for unusual “heatwave” conditions. This is one situation where there maybe a greater danger of heat illness.
I monitored the WBGT on the Saturday, when I was home, during the times the event would have been run & are as follows.
10am = 28
11am = 29.8
1pm = 33.1
2pm = 33.4
3pm = 32.9
Which confirmed by concerns & advice.
Other factors that would have increased the risk to our charges, are:
1)Duration of the event – the event was of 5 hours duration
2)Time of day – scheduled from 10-3pm, the hottest part of the day
3)Protective clothing – the need to wear protective clothing
4)Acclimatisation of the participant – it is recommended to exercise for one hour/day for 7-10 days to prepare for safe exercise in the heat & kids acclimatise slower than adults.
5)Fitness level/athletic ability of participant – some of the kids are overweight &/or unconditioned
6)Age & gender of participants – kids are especially at risk in the heat as their sweating mechanism, essential for effective cooling, is poorly developed & kids bodies absorb heat more rapidly in hot conditions. We also had several female riders who may have been at greater risk.
I know you had some measures in place which I commend you for but because of the extreme forecast you had not considered other factors which are recommended:
1) It is important to have trained personnel available to manage heat injuries
and designated recovery areas for patients.
2) In situations where heat problems may be expected, an experienced medical
practitioner should be present.
Because Heat stroke is potentially life threatening.
And that is probably my whole point.
Anyhow, I rang MNSW to see exactly how many juniors were disadvantaged & one only rider has required an exemption, which of course MNSW granted, considering the situation. Staff at MNSW were also surprised & disappointed at the criticism directed at me for my advice on this event, as I was.
Also, over the weekend there were 5 motorcycling events cancelled, 3 being junior events, because of the conditions. In fact, many sporting events were cancelled or rescheduled. Including mountain biking, road cycling, softball, basketball, rowing, even the International between Italy & the Matildas due for live TV coverage; all putting the welfare of their participants first.
I rest my case.
Bev Anderson-Tranter RN, RM, NIC(Cert).
Re: Junior Coaching Day. Pacific Park 7th February 2009. UPDATE
i agree with Bev they really had no choice but to cancel what would have happened if someone was carted off to hospital with severe heat exhaustion and then decided to turn around and start suing.Not to mention the suffering from heat exhaustion of the poor child.
i also was surprised with the remark of “beaurocratic @#$%” it is that attitude that gets other people into trouble.
I remember a A4DE being held up in Queensland about 10 years ago in bloody hot conditions and some people wanted to cancel or postpone but no they had to run it in extreme hot conditions telling the small minority who wanted to pull out that " This is Australia and where enduro riders knuckle down and race it" and alot suffered heat exhaustion and a unlucky few ended up in Hospital with internal organ melt down and are probably still suffering to this day.
i also was surprised with the remark of “beaurocratic @#$%” it is that attitude that gets other people into trouble.
I remember a A4DE being held up in Queensland about 10 years ago in bloody hot conditions and some people wanted to cancel or postpone but no they had to run it in extreme hot conditions telling the small minority who wanted to pull out that " This is Australia and where enduro riders knuckle down and race it" and alot suffered heat exhaustion and a unlucky few ended up in Hospital with internal organ melt down and are probably still suffering to this day.
- Neo
- Expert participant
- Posts: 444
- Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 1:27 pm
- Bike: 06 Sherco 250
- Club: TCC
- Location: Central Coast, NSW
Re: Junior Coaching Day. Pacific Park 7th February 2009. UPDATE
Not sure why I missed the follow-on's to this post...but I did
Bev....you clearly know your stuff.
I've no doubt that there's guys who are tough enough and fit enough to have ridden that day. But when there's kids involved it's just not worth the risk. And if a few of them had ended up in Hospital then all hell would have broken loose.
I'm sorry to hear you have been criticised for doing the right thing by them.
Best of balance.
Neo
Bev....you clearly know your stuff.
I've no doubt that there's guys who are tough enough and fit enough to have ridden that day. But when there's kids involved it's just not worth the risk. And if a few of them had ended up in Hospital then all hell would have broken loose.
I'm sorry to hear you have been criticised for doing the right thing by them.
Best of balance.
Neo
"Nothing more and nothing less than the vision of success"..... Ryan Leech
"TRIALS....It's not life or death....It's much more serious than that!!".....
"TRIALS....It's not life or death....It's much more serious than that!!".....
-
- B grade participant
- Posts: 92
- Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 10:34 pm
- Location: Shellharbour
Re: Junior Coaching Day. Pacific Park 7th February 2009. UPDATE
I agree wholeheartedly with Bev's comments.
In today's society,where people are often criticised after the event for not taking steps to prevent major issues from occuring, I believe the right decision was made.
If my young child was to have participated in the coaching day on that Saturday, I would have pulled the pin on them for the same reason.
Take all the technical detail out of it (It's not adding to the 'fear mentality' that the media has used over the last few months for lots of issues)......it's plain 'common sense'!
Maree
In today's society,where people are often criticised after the event for not taking steps to prevent major issues from occuring, I believe the right decision was made.
If my young child was to have participated in the coaching day on that Saturday, I would have pulled the pin on them for the same reason.
Take all the technical detail out of it (It's not adding to the 'fear mentality' that the media has used over the last few months for lots of issues)......it's plain 'common sense'!
Maree
Trials.......the family sport
Re: Junior Coaching Day. Pacific Park 7th February 2009. UPDATE
Thanks for your support!
Now, moving on, the Junior Coaching Day held this last Saturday at Les Boniface's magnificent property went off without a hitch. Thanks to all involved, the kids received lots of coaching, encouragement & confidence. They are now keen & ready for the trials session ahead.
All's well that ends well!
Please enjoy some so the snaps from the day.
Catch ya!
Bev
Now, moving on, the Junior Coaching Day held this last Saturday at Les Boniface's magnificent property went off without a hitch. Thanks to all involved, the kids received lots of coaching, encouragement & confidence. They are now keen & ready for the trials session ahead.
All's well that ends well!
Please enjoy some so the snaps from the day.
Catch ya!
Bev
- Neo
- Expert participant
- Posts: 444
- Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2004 1:27 pm
- Bike: 06 Sherco 250
- Club: TCC
- Location: Central Coast, NSW
Re: Junior Coaching Day. Pacific Park 7th February 2009. UPDATE
guesswho wrote:I feel that it should have been a decision made on the day, as weather forecasters get it wrong to.
For those who want to criticise that did not attend the event and see the effort that went into keeping everyone safe get your facts straight before opening your mouth (or putting fingers to keyboards).
There seems to be a lot of people that have opinions that don't ride or even come to the events. If you want to have an opinion or a say make an effort. Come along and have your say while the sections are being set or trials are being planned. An opinion the night before is too late.
Hi Toby,
I've never know a heatwave forecast to be completely wrong. Maybe a few degrees out but not completely wrong...have you?
I've re-read this post but I can't see anyone criticising the event. Just advising safety measures (I don't interpret that as criticism)...have I missed something or did the criticism come form outside this forum?
I think it's great to praise and appreciate the section setters and event organisers (And I know you did a lot for the PP day). But if we criticise riders for not turning up early enough or giving up enough of their time we may have less riders going to these events for fear of that criticism ....Would that be a good or bad thing?
Wishing you the best of harmoniums balance.
Neo
"Nothing more and nothing less than the vision of success"..... Ryan Leech
"TRIALS....It's not life or death....It's much more serious than that!!".....
"TRIALS....It's not life or death....It's much more serious than that!!".....
Re: Junior Coaching Day. Pacific Park 7th February 2009. UPDATE
guesswho wrote:Yes Neo you have missed a lot.
Neo if you look at the temps that Bev wrote down for the day you will find that they were at least 10 degrees off. Thats a big difference in my book.
Well Toby I had a look at the Temps and they where 33 degrees at 1.00pm still too hot.
quote
26 - 29 High - Very high Limit intensity. Limit duration to less than 60 minutes
per session.
30 and above Extreme Consider postponement to a cooler part of the day or
cancellation (allow swimming).
quote
Just because you can handle the heat does not mean every one else can.
I do ride /compete and I observed at the 1st round of the NSW titles and there where alot of people suffering from the heat and humidity on that day and it was only 30 degrees.
Coming from Canberra I would of thought you would be aware of bush fire dangers and how quick things can change and on that day there was a high bush fire risk do you think some people might have been affected by this risk and stayed home to protect there family and property just in case.I know I did.
Because after all it is only a trials event.
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