Basket Cases

Need help finding information or parts for that old machine in your shed? Someone in here will know!

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Greg Harding
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NIPPLES, Pairs of NIPPLES !

Postby Greg Harding » Sun Jan 17, 2021 7:35 am

Hi Everyone,

Are you ready for part 2 of {Wooden Wheel Spoking Jig?} Here it is anyway:

So after building the jig to locate rim and hub in relation to one another without spokes, it is now time to build new spokes. Starting at the bottom and working up or backwards as that is how I seem to do things. My collection of spoke blanks that came with my Spoke Theading Machine has been very handy as they are plentiful, I started by cutting the funny looking bent bit off! Then I rolled a thread on one end, fitted a nipple and slid in place and marked a cut length. Cut to length and then rolled a thread on the other end so it now looks like a :yamaha "Z" spoke only shorter and no bends in the middle, just like one but not really! Test fitted and it was slightly long, trimmed and rolled the thread a bit more and it fitted better. Removed from wheel and duplicated it and then fitted them both back in with one going each way to check if the first 9 spokes were the same length as the second 9 and yes they are. OK, so now onto making 16 more double ended spokes, here are the first 9 installed:
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The nipples I used were slightly shorter but were still a bitch to install into the hub and can only go into place in the order that I have chosen as they cross over each other with the second layer locking in the first layer. Here is the second layer installed:
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As there is an offset on this wheel (Rim is not on Centre of hub), the working out of spoke length needs to be repeated and here are the next 9 spokes fitted with room around the valve for access this time:
1610825985993.jpg
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It is at this time that I realize that our Italian friends have worked out that IF you space the nipple holes in the hub further apart, THEN the nipples go in easier! HOWEVER the last 9 spokes are a different length to the 3rd layer of spokes! Here is the 4th layer of spokes installed:
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Off to wheel true in machine and then test fit back into bike:
1610826127550.jpg
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It just dawned on me that you might have been expecting to see some other type of nipples? :shock: :lol: :roll: #-o :oops: :lol:


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David Lahey
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still on nipples

Postby David Lahey » Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:08 pm

It's always good to see your technical stories Greg. I love them.
Your spoking work looks great and it I suspect that it has been very satisfying. I knew that you would get value out of your spoke threading machine.
It looks like a 1970s (drum brake) rim so I wondered if you needed to alter the angle of the rim holes to suit that hub?
Did you ever work out why they put the valve hole in that weird spot on the tubeless rim?


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warning - Bultaco clutch again

Postby David Lahey » Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:47 pm

An update on the :Bultaco: clutch saga

I've been hunting for someone to cut very flat clutch driven plates for my old Bultacos and tried a place in Brisbane where they can cut them out using water jet, which I figure would be even better than laser cutting due to the lack of edge heating.
The cost is $53.60 per plate for 5 plates ($269) and $12 per plate for 25 plates ($300).


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tat ty
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Re: Basket Cases

Postby tat ty » Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:41 pm

Hey David.

A couple of years ago I had a series of one off architectural components fabricated which entailed a number of steel blanks cut with the water jet process.

I'm mindful that a clutch plate is much more precise.

The fabricator ( with whom I became good mates ) called me and suggested that if I was happy to reduce the overall length by just millimetres, he would need only 2 sheets of steel not 3.

Furthermore, given only 1 of the 5 edges of the finished Item would remain visible, he suggested there would be a significant cost saving if he cut at a higher speed (less machine time) and I spent a day with a grinder and a flap wheel dressing that 1 edge.

Overall cost from memory was 33-40% of the original starting point.

Was an interesting lesson in flexibility.

Alastair



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another fun project coming up

Postby David Lahey » Mon Jan 18, 2021 2:04 pm

This well-packaged motorbike frame arrived from the UK today.
I'm stoked, having wanted one for a very long time.
People who don't KNOW what it is are encouraged to have a guess at what frame it is :shock:
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Greg Harding
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Still on nipples, lots of them!

Postby Greg Harding » Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:08 pm

Hi Everyone,
David Lahey wrote:It's always good to see your technical stories Greg. I love them.
Your spoking work looks great and it I suspect that it has been very satisfying. I knew that you would get value out of your spoke threading machine. Yes, the spoke threading machine is very handy as it is the right machine for the job if you know what I mean. Very satisfying when things go right!
It looks like a 1970s (drum brake) rim so I wondered if you needed to alter the angle of the rim holes to suit that hub? No David, all of the rims from the 1970s that I am familiar with have large diameter flanges on one side at least and the flanges are closer together. The wheel came from the local bike wrecker for next to nothing and they did not know what it was off. For me it was 18 x 2.15, 36 hole and small diameter flanges wide enough apart to not need to rework holes in rim. Just for you I rescued the hub out of scrap metal bin!

1610944112982.jpg
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Did you ever work out why they put the valve hole in that weird spot on the tubeless rim?
If you have any theories I am all ears, my best guess is the wheel builder was annoyed at nipple holders in rim being almost unaccessable?
The rim was bead blasted and then vapor blasted and has no markings but the valve and rim lock holes are really close together which suits me.
1610944073814.jpg
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On another note regarding :kawasaki head studs, :suzuki ones are longer but 10 x 1.25 instead of 10 x 1.5 so I suggest removing a stud and hitting up an exhaust shop for slightly longer 10 x 1.5 studs but make sure they are plated unless you do your own plating?
Oh and my guess for your Paper Mache frame and swing arm is :Bultaco: late model Sherpa or after market frame for aforementioned?


2017 Newsflash: RUST IS THE NEW BLING !
Team Hardwood, the only licenced trials riders in Coffs Harbour!
Miles of Smiles
Greg Harding

David Lahey
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Re: Still on nipples, lots of them!

Postby David Lahey » Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:26 pm

Greg Harding wrote:The wheel came from the local bike wrecker for next to nothing and they did not know what it was off. For me it was 18 x 2.15, 36 hole and small diameter flanges wide enough apart to not need to rework holes in rim. Just for you I rescued the hub out of scrap metal bin!

Sounds like a perfect pickup from the wreckers. I asked because I had assumed it was a TY/KT/RL/TL/XR/XL/TS/DT/XT/TT/KE rim. It sure looks pretty now and yes I do like the patina on the mystery hub.


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David Lahey
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Re: Still on nipples, lots of them!

Postby David Lahey » Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:38 pm

Greg Harding wrote:On another note regarding :kawasaki head studs, :suzuki ones are longer but 10 x 1.25 instead of 10 x 1.5 so I suggest removing a stud and hitting up an exhaust shop for slightly longer 10 x 1.5 studs but make sure they are plated unless you do your own plating?

I had a look at car exhaust manifold studs but they are made with one of the ends with too short a thread. It's about 15mm. I'm after 50mm overall length with at least 20mm thread each end. Someone suggested just unscrewing the studs a few mm which I'm pondering too.
I didn't do anything to those studs in a KT motor I rebuilt (using a cylinder spacer) in 2013 for a friend and when I looked at the photos I took of the build, I can see that those stud ends are not proud of the cylinder flange nuts and yet it is still going OK.
I know I can buy suitable 50mm long studs. Still deciding.
Why do they have to be plated?


relax, nothing is under control

David Lahey
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Re: Still on nipples, lots of them!

Postby David Lahey » Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:43 pm

Greg Harding wrote:Oh and my guess for your Paper Mache frame and swing arm is :Bultaco: late model Sherpa or after market frame for aforementioned?

Close enough to get the banana Greg. Well done =D> You know me well 8)


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JC1
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Re: Basket Cases

Postby JC1 » Wed Jan 20, 2021 7:43 pm

Is it aftermarket Dave? SM?
Also is it rude to ask how expensive the freight was?


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