Steering Geometry - Thread for techies...

[KTMSprocket]

OK. So the first modern trials bike I rode and bought was the '04 Sherco 2.9.
The second modern trials bike I rode was Dave Marchant's Scorpa SY250R.

I have no skill on these bikes but definately noticed the Sherco had fast and reactive stereing. The Scorpa had slower steering and more compliant suspension.

Do any of you guys know if this is due to substantially different rake and trail angles?

(I swapped to a Scorpa...and now ride better....sorry, but true.....AND I AM NOT TRYING TO START A BRAND THREAD)

[Neo]

definately noticed the Sherco had fast and reactive stereing. The Scorpa had slower steering and more compliant suspension.
Do any of you guys know if this is due to substantially different rake and trail angles?

You got it....but just add frame geometry, swing-arm, wheelbase, centre of gravity and the riders geometry!!..... to that list too

I swapped to a Scorpa...

Well here’s a turn out for the books….I thought you'd given up Trials???

(I swapped to a Scorpa...and now ride better....sorry, but true.....

I can believe that you believe this. And it could even be very true.

The older frame 290 are not the best first bike. The powerful engine makes them a bit unforgiving. And a small mistakes ends up hurting big time.
But the reality is that the Scorpa 2T and the 04 Sherco are simular generation bikes. So the pros and cons tend to even out.
But I’ve learnt that it’s really the rider’s adaptation to the bike that provides the control.

I spent many hours trying to tame my 290. But now I love the “high power on demand” of my 250. Which is actually more than my old 290 used to offer.

And I agree the suspension and geometry of the Scorpa felt great when I rode it. But there were a number of things that made the 2T “not for me”. And I’m still very happy with that choice, I made, just for me.

In reality I find trials a “mental sport” (Crazy too ). If you believe you can successfully ride a section or obstacle, you normally can….Trouble is, most of us need to successfully ride that section, before we believe it.

So enjoy your Scorpa……because the more you ride the more you'll appreciate "there's more to this than meets anyones eye".


Best of balance.

Neo

[David Lahey]

The rake and trail are pretty similar on all the modern trials bikes but there are many other reasons as Neo said why they all feel so different - including bikes that are identical apart from the different capacity ie Beta 200, 250 and 270.
If you can get a read of the latest Trial Magazine, the review of all the 2008 model bikes is quite informative regarding the feel of the different bikes. Then get a test ride on whatever you can and make up your own mind. There is one bike that will suit you the best. It may well be the SY250 2T - they certainly are one of the easiest on the body to ride, but you won't know for sure unless you try others.

[paulm]

Interesting thoughts... I rode, and still do occasionally, a 198B Bullie and my first step on a modern trials bike was an early Sherco back in 99 - the obvious difference in geometry i.e. more upright stance and much quicker steering - was a revelation. So much so that I bought a ‘new’ bike, a 96 Beta Techno.

Then along came the Scorpa and it was another defining moment for me… again not wanting to start a Scorpa’s are the dog’s bits thread but at my level (clubbie/veteran) I’ve tried them all and for me, the Scorpa is just a really easy bike to get on with. I find it's not as twitchy as a Gasser – more like a 'lighter Beta' if that makes sense and the decision between a Scorpa and Sherco was purely one of preferring the ‘look’ of the Scorpa.

Picked up my new 08 SY250 R a few weeks ago and the lighter front end of the 08 is again another huge step forward - personal view - it’s the best bike I’ve ridden and getting back on the Bullie for the occasional paddle simply reminds me how good many of today’s twin shock boys really are…

So as Neo says - if it feels good - it must be good and good is probably as good as it needs to be...

Paul Mac

[OZX]

When speaking of the 04 Sherco

... The older frame 290 are not the best first bike. The powerful engine makes them a bit unforgiving. And a small mistakes ends up hurting big time.
But the reality is that the Scorpa 2T and the 04 Sherco are simular generation bikes. So the pros and cons tend to even out.

Well I am so new to trials that I don't even own a bike, so please excuse my ignorance on all things trials and some lenience on all other topics won't go astray either.

But because I am hunting I will ask this.
Is the "older frame" you refer to the chrome units (05 and older) and therefore you are excluding the black frames (06 onwards) from your statement?

Regards OZX

[Neo]

Is the "older frame" you refer to the chrome units (05 and older) and therefore you are excluding the black frames (06 onwards) from your statement?

Yep OZX...that is correct.
But I was really only referring to the 290.
And remember, a lot depends on how you ride and what you try to ride, while your getting used to controlling that power......just don't underestimate how long it might take to learn


Best of balance.

Neo

[KTMSprocket]

It was a bizarre thing. The moment I stepped on Dave's bike I was a better rider...and as there was about 30 seconds between hoping off my 2.9 and onto his SY...the only scientific difference was the bike(s).

Later I took a punt and bought an SY that came my way. So I had the chance to ride them in my backyard back-to-back. Again, the SY felt controllable, supple and less twitchy - in my mind its a fact (maybe for others its not, but for me it was a fact).

Also, I should point out that I had retarded the ignition on the 2.9 and added a slow action throttle to calm it down. The SY was out of the box standard.

Anyway...I then sold the 2.9 to pay for the SY.

A final point, while I am not a very good trials rider but do like to mess about on them, I would say from my very inexpereinced position is that if I wanted a social bike I would buy the Scorpa....if I wanted a competition weapon and had the skill to ride it....the Sherco would be my pick.

Having said all that, stuffing around on the Scorpa makes me a better dirt rider, and stuffing around on the WR makes me a better street rider.

PS. Did I mention, you can't have enough motorbikes in the shed.

[Neo]

PS. Did I mention, you can't have enough motorbikes in the shed.

I second that motion

Best of balance.

Neo

[aquira]

this kind experience i dont have..

i would like to know as much as i can about trials bike..and if you all kind enough to let me know the best geometry for trials bike i really appreciate it, some measurement..

or some links probably

[aquira]

ok..not the best..but at least some measurement gentlemen??