All grades in Aussie and State titles events

[Twinshock]

Hi to all Trials riders
We have the Aussie titles coming to Qld in August and soon the annual debate over why are the majority of Australian trials riders are not allowed to compete for a championship will start.
Who's to say that a current Clubman, C or B grade rider won't win the Aussie open in 4/5 years time, why shouldn't they be a champion in the developing grades before hitting the bigtime.
I don't know how the Championship grades were decided on but there are a lot of people who believe its time for a change.
Just think of the extra revenue to be raised and the extra helping hands that would suddenly be available to help lay out sections and observe.
The majority of trials riders in Australia are lower grade riders and there are a number of riders who believe they should be allowed to compete.
With the aid of Keith J a poll has been set up on the opening screen for you to add your vote as to what you would like to happen in the future.
Have your say there or lets see what this topic produces
Cheers
Twinshock

[Beech]

Yeah why not, I'II chip in on this one, after talking with various level riders (mainly A & B) these past few years what about "Young Masters" class, this would cater for riders 18 to under 35, they would ride the same yellow masters line which is already set at the Aussies so no more section setting to be done, it could cater for those A riders who wish to not ride open solo, B and even the better blue plate riders, sorry, doesn't really cater for the clubman rider though. It surprises a lot of non riding people at the Aussies that A & B ride all year and then can't ride at the Aussies unles they ride open, P/classic, classic, vets or something along those lines,just a thought,
anyway, that's my five seconds worth,
Beech

[Stu]

thank you Twinshock for this posting. I brought a similar topic up last year and didnt get a good response. Yes, we need more clubman riders in the Aussie Titles and be recognised for their efforts in such competition. After I rode at the Aussie Titles for the 1st time last year, I was astounded at what I had to ride! I was told I'd be riding equivalent to C Grade lines, but they were more like B Grade.
I realise the sections were made harder as they were the Aussie titles, but they would have put off many budding trials riders. And we Clubman riders were not recognised for riding in the Titles, we are not eligible for trophies.

[sdeane01]

I am one of those unfortunates who cant ride at the oz titles unless i get a twin shock or ride open solo, think if i had of rode in the 09 title then there may have been a few sections i would have got through for less than a 5. I understand that all of us want to ride in the national titles, but do we want a national clubman champ? If so how do we award that? Can A grade rides compete in that. If not does that mean riders have to be graded? Also when comparing to motorcross and other forms of motorcycling they dont have as many classes as we do and the majority of their riders cant ride the nationals. Do we want to be different? If more people ride will there be more helpers before, but less on the days of competition?
I am not sure which way to go but there are some ideas for thought.

[Stu]

Why not have an Australian Clubman Champion? Yes there has to be requirements, like be in Clubman grade all year and have no higher grades, 'degrade' themselves to compete. I enjoyed the Aussie Nats last year and it was tough. But I'd like to see those who compete in the Clubman Grade receive a Champion's trophy, or do we go for a veteran bike and ride that and forget the grass roots of the sport?

[ianrogers]

I know my choice to become unaffiliated makes my opinion a little down the ladder on the scale of importance but I'll give it a go anyway.
I agree that the support grades have had the raw end of the pineapple for a long time now but I'm sure that most trials enthusiasts feel that they deserve to be recognised in some form or other so here's my two options relating to matter.
The simple fact is that the support grades are always relied upon to make up the observer numbers, which is fair enough but rather one sided, so why not refine what happened at the 2004 Titles whereby there were two distinct events run for the support and championship grades with each observing for the other and, if it is deemed necessary, with cost incentives thrown in. It seems that every state now packages the National event up in a Trials Week format so why not have the support grades Championship in the extra Trials Week event leading up to the Titles where the Championship Grades can observe and visa versa for the main event the following weekend. This way everyone takes a turn in contributing as opposed to the very one sided situation that exists now.
As for the state format where, speaking from the Qld perspective, it is always run on the Sunday & Monday of the Queens Birthday weekend, either hold the support grade Champs on the Saturday or any weekend you want.
One last thing, you may want to scrap the unpleasant us and them, Championship and Support Grade termanology A.S.A.P. which always seems to drive a wedge between the two groups every year.

[Twinshock]

Well I hoped to spark some comment by starting this topic and that seems to be happening but I trust everyone is voting on the homepage of this website as Keith has gone to a lot of trouble to set the poll up and it will give a definite view of the weight of opinion on this subject.
Whichever way it comes about will be good for the sport in generating some enthusiasm and changes to the "we always do it this way" syndrome.
Read the overseas reports and you will see our sport is declining in rider participation and worldwide bike sales are 50% down on what they were 10 years ago and a lot of the experts put some of it down to the following;
Severity of sections,
The cost of technology to produce bikes capable of scaling the biggest obstacles whilst still weighing less than 70kgs.
Stopping and balancing has taken the excitement out of the sport.
Lower grade riders leaving the sport fearing the cost of damage to their machines and personal injury.

These are the opinions of riders such as Sammy Miller and Malcolm Rathmell and several others whilst recently visiting the UK.
If we don't recognise what the organisers of the sport are doing wrong then it will go into further decline over coming years and other small manufacturers will dissapear along with more riders. Some might say the trials scene is healthy in Aussie but I have been riding in the UK and over here for over 50 years and believe me,,,,, all is not well,,,, but don't despair,,, it can be fixed, but I wonder if enough people are interested.
Cheers
Twinshock

[keithj]

Good topic.

Personally I'm against inclusion of C and B grades in the Aussies. This is because:
a) there is no national grading scheme;
b) riding a particular grade is based on skill and ability, not results, and who is going to assess skill?;
c) you could never 'force' anyone to ride up a grade due to the safety (and liability) issues that presents.

All this leads to riders choosing their own grade, thus the Aussies will only ever be 'the best of the best' in open class, plus the age-based classes.

Put another way, just because I win every C grade trial through the year doesn't mean I want to, or have the ability to, ride B grade. So I would take offense at being graded B grade based on results.

Then there's the problem of sandbaggers/trophy hunters.... yes they do exist. Even if someone is capable of riding B grade, they may choose to ride C grade in the Aussies. They may even choose to ride C grade all year, just so they can ride C grade in the Aussies (if your normal grade became the criteria for entry).
An Aussie Championship title is a huge carrot, and for some the temptation would simply be too great.

Other codes can do it, because their grading is not primarily based on ability - it is based foremost on results. You win a class, you move to the next. Failing to win in the next class in enduro is only a matter of not being fast enough. Failing in trials means you footed/crashed more than the next bloke. Crashing means injuries, and this to me is a huge problem that will kill any enforced grading scheme.

And without a grading system you just can't open it up to other classes. Most people are honest enough to do the right thing, but a self-graded entry system would open up just enough doubt as to ruin it. (How would you feel if you worked hard at preparation all year for the Clubman title, only to have someone entirely capable of riding C grade enter Clubman and win it? And therein lies the problem - just who's opinion counts when it comes to assessing capability? Yours? Theirs? MA's?)

[Stu]

My point exactly Keith with the C grader or higher coming back to ride Clubman. If that person rides higher than Clubman all year then he/she is ineligible to ride Clubman at the OZ Titles. All Clubs have a list of who rides what grades.

[David Lahey]

Stu the gradings are different in different states - well at least Queensland and NSW rider grading standards are poles apart and probably other states are different too
If C graders from NSW came and rode "C grade" at the Aussie Titles at Mt Tambourine this year and the sections were set to Queensland C Grade standard, there would be some very surprised and disappointed NSW riders.