Round 3 NSW Moto Trials Championship

[Chuck]

Hi All,

I have just printed out the supp reggs for the NSW round 3 to be conducted by Manly Warringah Club. I have noticed that there is no entry price listed for a family entry. This has made me wonder how many families are being deterred from riding by the high cost of entries? I understand that many 'behind the scenes' expenses are incorporated into running a trial however; a majority of other clubs across Australia have a family option available. So i ask the question why is it that Manly are unable to supply this option? Also why is the rate of single entries so high? Aren’t clubs were supposed to be non-profit organisations? And why are minders required to pay $50 and upward if no rider levy from their entries are being paid to MNSW? I may seem as though i am pointing the finger but i do feel that this is an issue which should be addressed. If anyone has any comments or are able assist me and many other riders to understand why this is occurring you are encouraged to voice your opinion.

Cheers

[paulm]

Hi Chuck

Thank you for your comments – and since I know that MWMCC are not regular visitors to this site I have passed your post on to them and I’m sure they will respond quickly but it may take a couple of days so please be patient.

I would however make a couple of observations on your post.

Motor Cycle clubs in general are NOT a not for profit organisation but even if they were, no organisation can run open events at a loss and from my experience I would be surprised if Manly break even at $75.00 per entry.

In addition, the venue owner Pacific Park is a commercial business – they provide one of the best trials riding facilities in the country AND provide it at a significant discount to the trials community to help keep costs to a minimum.

Just to put it in perspective the NSW State Moto Cross Champs entry fee is $130 (including transponder hire) and for that you get 10 mins practice and around 15- 20 minutes racing –as opposed to a full days riding for $75.00 that must make Moto Trials the cheapest form of off road riding available.

I hope you can see from the above that $75.00 is a pretty good deal however, I’m sure MWMCC will answer your other queries quickly.

Posted by Paul McGrath on behalf of the NSW Moto Trials promotions Group.

[Col Zar]

Hi All,

I have also wondered why the minder entry is so high?

Yes they are involved in the event but it is double dipping a bit. They should only be allowed inside the section for catching and thats it. Same as Europe. So overall their impact on the organisation of the trial is minimal and it appears they are necessary to ride some classes to avoid massive crashes. I know i have struggled without a minder this year and cannot afford to enter myself and a minder at each event ($125/event).

Happy to discuss the topic with anyone.

Regards

Colin Z

[Steve Holzhauser]

Just a couple of observations on this.

Chuck has raised some valid points on the family entry which pretty well all other clubs offer.
Single entry rates have crept up in the NSW series over the last couple of seasons and maybe this can be expected.
The family rate offered by clubs I'm hoping is just an over sight by the round 3 promoters.
When events are conducted at Pacific Park if a portion of the entry fee is directed to them for the use of their excellent facilities there should be no grumbles from anybody.. Their support for Trials in NSW is without peer.

There is no doubt that entry fees for Moto Trials is the lowest in all disciplines of motorcycling, always has been. Comparisons as pointed out by Paul really should not suggest to some clubs a reason to raise their entry fees when the vast majority of clubs Australia wide have always endeavoured to keep a lid on them.

Having just been a spectator at a Trial held locally by SQTA which is a Southern OLD based unaffiliated club, I was very surprised at the many familiar faces that I have not seen for many years back enjoying their riding. Talking with them was an eye opener for their enthusiasm of being able to ride events with their families without the high costs associated with affiliated events.
Really was a confirmation that cost plays an important roll for many to drag their bikes back out to attend events.

Rider numbers particularly in NSW title events have fallen sharply with the introduction of such a high round series and I find that is very disappointing. I'm sure it is defiantly associated with the high costs incurred by many of the long distance travelling competitors who used to support the previous lower round format.

Colin's point should also be given very strong consideration by MA or even promoting clubs.

A minder has already paid for an annual competition licence to be eligible to help out. They have a machine that has to pass scrutineering as well as having full riding kit that must pass scrutineering. They then spend the whole day ensuring safety to not just their designated rider, but in many cases to any grade rider who may need assistance when they find themselves in trouble.

Also, in many instances, Minders have probably forfeited a ride, or even if they are designated full time Minders, their presence to ensure accidents are really kept to a minimum is paramount. With the severe section difficulty our experts are confronting their presence really goes a long way in ensuring both rider safety and minimising accidents that would could have an impact on insurance premiums to the organising bodies involved.

This really is an area that needs to be looked at.

Regards

Steve.

[paulm]

Some personal observations...

Events in NSW are promoted by clubs whose commercial status is irrelevant. They cannot be expected to run an event at a loss. And... with only 50 or so riders supporting the NSW State rounds this year and, with around 30% of those entering being either unable or unwilling to get their entries in on time, you don’t need to be a rocket scientist to work out that a club needs to plan for a worst case scenario to ensure that they don’t run at a loss

In fact why should they even consider it? In most clubs only a small % of their members are trials riders so why should the majority of members support the few???

The point is it won’t happen...

Just to give some insight into costs - providing Porta Loos at an event costs almost $10.00 per rider.

Also, I’ve just done a rough calculation that tells me if we paid the volunteers (who devote considerable amounts of time and spend considerable amounts of their own money to help run events) their expenses – by that I mean the actual money it costs them to put on the event, petrol and free materials and ignoring the amount of time they provide FREE – you’re not far from the entry cost for 50 rider event....

The point is no one is making money here and no one is getting ‘a free ride’.

So perhaps the entry fee should be increased to $150?

Or, perhaps another 50 riders might like to support the events and help reduce the costs?

Or, perhaps those that do support the events might like to get their entries in on time and give the organising clubs some confidence that they won’t lose a packet?

Now by all means let’s have an open discussion on issues, that’s the only way we can improve our sport, but a word of caution - beat up the clubs/organisers over issues they have little or no control over and you can probably guess the outcome.

Paul Mac

[Chuck]

Hi All,

I am glad to see the variety of responses which proves that there are many riders concerned with issues developing in trials. But we are forgetting my original enquiry which was why is manly charging estimated $10 is more than say pacific park trials club who held the last open? And why don’t they provide a family fee? I have personally ridden with over 6 trials clubs all providing a family concession. Why are Manly different?
I also did point out that I am aware expenses such as porter loos, facility fees and the use of observers and understand that clubs must profit to pay for this.

I agree $75 is a good deal if you are turning up to an event with one bike in the back however, no consideration is given to family’s with one adult member and two or more juniors totalling $135 and upward rather than a standard family fee of $100?

Colin and Steve make valid points. Why are minders required to pay a high amount when they already must hold a licence, and are spending their day ensuring accidents don’t occur? As Colin said minders are hard to find. Perhaps because of the rise in minder fee’s?

Also I understand and 100% respect the support given to NSW motorcycle trials clubs by Pacific Park. And in no way am I suggesting that the costs for using their facilities are the issue in regards to the high price of entry fees.

Paul you keep saying clubs need more riders…. I’ve now done some of my own maths.

Would you rather see at an event for example:
40 riders paying $60 each = $2400 or
32 riders paying $75 each = $2400

LOWER FEES = MORE RIDERS = MORE MONEY TO PAY FOR TOILETS AND OBSERVERS

I noticed in you title you are labelled the promotions officer. So maybe you can answer my question why isn’t the sport being promoted as family orientated, and as providing a low cost and fun motorcycle sport. The exact reason I got into trials myself.
Also I regard to entries not being received on time, this becomes the rider’s responsibility, and perhaps a few being turned way to get the message.

In no way am I beating up any club for the work that they do. All the work that they do I appreciated by trials riders across Australia. I am however a concerned rider asking valid questions and offering reasonable solutions.

The costs associated with the other facets of motorcycle sport is irrelevant.

Anyway, regardless of all the banter my point still stands. Why does Manly charge an extra $10 and why don’t they have a family fee?

Regards,
Chuck, Rocket Scientist 

[The Hell Team]

Surely the high Minder entry fees are because of the MNSW insurance. The minders have to be covered like any rider does. They are in a section potentially exposed to similar dangers as the rider. I'd be looking past the organizing Club and asking what are they having to pay to MNSW in fees for minder entries. I'm not a member of the Manly Club, or part of the organizing body of this event, but i would imagine these Minders fees go deeper than the club trawling for cash.

I know these sort of things are extremely high on the agenda of the NSW Trials Sub-Committee. Their priority is to try and make MNSW see some sense in reducing the red tape, officialdom, and multitude of fees involved in running Open and Club level Trials. It is hard work, but there is a dedicated small group trying hard to change things.
Unfortunately too many times we suffer because we do not fit the mould of Road Racers, MotoX, Enduro et al. in the broad brushstroke that are the Event and Competition Rules laid down by MNSW and MA.

Chuck I'm sure the lack of Family entry is just a club slip up. Ring me and I'll give you some Manly Club contacts. I am sure they will help you out so you can bring the tribe down again (and take home the trophies.....AGAIN)!

[paulm]

[quote="Chuck"]Hi All,

I am glad to see the variety of responses which proves that there are many riders concerned with issues developing in trials. But we are forgetting my original enquiry which was why is manly charging estimated $10 is more than say pacific park trials club who held the last open? And why don’t they provide a family fee? I have personally ridden with over 6 trials clubs all providing a family concession. Why are Manly different? [quote="Chuck"]Hi All,

Hi Chuck

Only Manly can answer the above, they organise their own events and hopefully you’ve heard from them by now.

[quote="Chuck"]Hi All,

I noticed in you title you are labelled the promotions officer. So maybe you can answer my question why isn’t the sport being promoted as family orientated, and as providing a low cost and fun motorcycle sport. The exact reason I got into trials myself.

[quote="Chuck"]Hi All,


We do - all NSW Moto Trials Promotions Group events have a family membership.

[quote="Chuck"]Hi All,

Also I regard to entries not being received on time, this becomes the rider’s responsibility, and perhaps a few being turned way to get the message.

[quote="Chuck"]Hi All,

We'll make sure that happens for round 4.

Best regards

Paul Mac

[AdinaReed]

Hey Guys,

Chuck, you have hit the nail on the head.

My family and i were all considering coming down for the 3rd round. But after printing out the supp reggs myself we found like Chuck that their was no family price listed. As many of you may be aware our family of 6 is quite large and paying seperately for all entries would cost $360. $360 plus the expences to come down from Queensland makes for a costly weekend.

Because we were all keen to come down I rang the contact listed on the supp reggs regarding the family fee. I spoke to a member of the Manly club asking if there was a family entry?

I was just wondering if there is a family entry avalible for round 3? No.
Is there anyone else i can speak to? No.

So as you can see after ringing the manly club they were still unable to provide me with answers.

Anyways, the Reed family are no longer coming down, one weekend @ $360 just for riding, enough said.

And finally after 5 responses no one has answered "Chuck the rocket scientist's" original concerns.

Adina Reed

[AdinaReed]

Woops and i forgott to say.... Paul Arnott if you were refering to Grandpa (Denys) when you said "so you can bring the tribe down again (and take home the trophies.....AGAIN)!" your mistaken.... Grandpa hardly knows how to use the phone to order trials magazine let alone turn on a computer and connect to the internet

Adina