Cub barrels.

[David Lahey]

Gents,
A couple of years ago I am sure I saw a competently ridden, original radial head Bulto win the OPEN class of the WDTC Twin shock Masters at Conondale. I am not surprised. Theses bikes are good and the M10 destroyed the British trials bike industry overnight
OSC

I think the Bultaco you saw at Conondale which won Open Twinshock was a Bultaco M49 (sold from 1968 to 1971) ridden by Greg Harding

[Geoff Lewis]

Hi All, To OSC, I think you should go the "Gristy fiddle forks" route as then at least the bike will look right and should perform well enough and you can get out and ride it in Classics. If you have to pay someone to do the machining it could be a bit expensive though. As for Gristy going to heavyweight , haven't you suffered enough Gristy? I will keep an eye out for something for you just the same. I always enjoyed watching the heavy weights getting around. Greg Harding is another very good rider and perhaps he would like to share his view on the M27 he rode at Cannondale.
Regards Geoff.

[David Lahey]

Greg Harding is another very good rider and perhaps he would like to share his view on the M27 he rode at Cannondale.
Regards Geoff.

So when did Greg ride a M27 at Conondale? Is this a wind-up?
Here are the four M49s that were at Conondale the year that Greg won (2011)

[Greg Harding]

Hi All,

Greg Harding is another very good rider and perhaps he would like to share his view on the M27 he rode at Cannondale.
Regards Geoff.

Hi Everyone,

Geoff and OSC, thanks for the complements! Would like to confirm what David has said is true, the M49 communal bike was ridden by me in 2011 at Connondale!

Perhaps I should explain the communal bit as I think it is pertinent to the discussion. The majority of the bike was mine ie the rolling frame, Brownie lent me the shocks, the rear guard, front forks, foot pegs, exhaust and motor belonged to a mate Steve P. OK, maybe the majority was not mine? The point that I am trying to make is the rules for eligibility were very easy to understand and comply with.

Hopefully Classic rules can be simplified or dumbed down so even I can understand them?

[Geoff Lewis]

Hi All, The M27 is one of the few Bultaco's that I like the look of however, I don't like the bubble seat on one of the bikes in the pictures. It looks pretty crap! Did the owner have piles or what?
Regards Geoff.

[brownie]

M27.jpg

M27 Probably the rarest Sherpa T of all

[TriCub]

Gents,

Pre 65 trials competition started in the UK around the mid seventies. 99% of contemporary trials bikes were Spanish. People wanted to see and ride something different. There is nothing magical about 1965. It was chosen purely to stop the first model Spanish trials bike being ridden. The class could just easily have been named Early Trials Bikes not made in Spain. It wasn’t. 31 Dec 64 was never meant to differentiate Cub motors or similar. It was the vibe, the Mabo. The present MA moms adhere to that doctrine.

OSC

OSC.
I'm glad you are talking about what happened in the UK.
The Classic movement in started Australia as pre63 or62 (if my memory serves me correctly) as was the classic road race cut off piont at the time. After a while it was decided that the cut off date should be moved forward a couple of years to let in things like side pionts Cubs and D7 Bantams and others that I'm not to familiar with.
So you can see that the Australian doctrine is not quite the same as UK's and adapting the rules to suit our backwards way has been happening for quite some time.

[TriCub]

M27.jpg

M27 Probably the rarest Sherpa T of all

Isn't that thing just lovely.
It's quite a bit different to the M10. Different frame shape to suit the 5 Speed motor. Front hub is dractically smaller and lighter looking, and of course the new 5 speed motor.
Wish I had one.

[oldslowcoach]

The Classic movement in started Australia as pre63 or62 (if my memory serves me correctly) as was the classic road race cut off piont at the time. After a while it was decided that the cut off date should be moved forward a couple of years to let in things like side pionts Cubs and D7 Bantams and others that I'm not to familiar with

George, thank you for that history. If that is the case, I'm thinking the change from pre 62/63 to pre 65 is when the words No Spanish were originally added to the classic trials moms. For the record, and as some of you will know, I do not dislike Bulto's. I recently inherited a couple and I already had a couple of my own, including my 17th birthday present, a one year old M158. Unfortunately the 158 is virtually in barn find condition having been used in the UK by all and sundry in my absence. It is in Qld now

osc

[TriCub]

The Classic movement in started Australia as pre63 or62 (if my memory serves me correctly) as was the classic road race cut off piont at the time. After a while it was decided that the cut off date should be moved forward a couple of years to let in things like side pionts Cubs and D7 Bantams and others that I'm not to familiar with

George, thank you for that history. If that is the case, I'm thinking the change from pre 62/63 to pre 65 is when the words No Spanish were originally added to the classic trials moms. For the record, and as some of you will know, I do not dislike Bulto's. I recently inherited a couple and I already had a couple of my own, including my 17th birthday present, a one year old M158. Unfortunately the 158 is virtually in barn find condition having been used in the UK by all and sundry in my absence. It is in Qld now

osc

No Spanish was in there from the start I beleive as they were under the impression that if a they let them ride that all the riders of Pommy bike wouldn't have a chance and since it was a competition it wouldn't be fair. They did however let people use Jap carbs provided they were age eligable as the Keihins were.

It still makes me laugh that there is such a strong belief that the M10 is some sort of wonder bike. I know that Sammy Miller strated winning on one and the rest is history but what would have happened is the Triumph factory had built a 250cc Cub with alloy forks, hubs and rims. Which were all available in the UK in 64 and given it to Sammy.
I haven't riden an M10 but I have had a good ride on David's M49 at connondale which as 2 models newer should be a bit better to ride. I had my Cub there day and riding the same sections I stuggled on the Bultaco. It weighs about 12 to15kg more and has a longer wheel base which kills it in the stupid tight stuff that we ride. I wouldn't have been able to win my title on one even if I was used to it. One place it did shine though was in big long hill climbs which we hardly ever see in Clubman lines.
If people started saying the M10 killed of the heavyweight English machines only. I'd believe that as there were still people riding Cubs and other machines in the UK post 64 and doing quite well against mortal riders on Bultaco's. Miller was the god at the time and could have won on anything.
I can see in Australia that Bultacos shouldn't compete against the heavy weight singles as they did in the UK in 1964. Hang on they don't as we have a heavy weight and light weight class already.