Basket Cases

[Rod]

I'm trying to restore my faith with old Cota's, I had a 123 new as as a kid which was a pile of Sh!t. Than in the mid to late '70's I bought a pristine looking 247 from some young joker in Albion, Qld. He did mention that it had been under-water during the '74 floods but I stupidly didn't realise the consequences of this and bought it anyway, it turned out to be a pile of shite also, I won't mention the name of the 'mechanic' at the end of Cavendish Rd I entrusted the motor rebuild to as he no longer trades(thank god), but needless to say it was still a gutless/doughy machine after he'd had it for about 6 months.
I keep reading and hearing that the 247 was an ok machine, hence this purchase, hopefully 3rd time lucky.

[Greg Harding]

Hi Everyone,

Rod, my faith in was restored by Kermit, nice to ride, very forgiving and surprisingly torquey.

While we are talking , I had been hearing about a lonely crinkle finned motor in the boot of a car for over a year but the owner could not find it. Had all but given up hope of ever seeing it until Montyman sent me a photo, apparently it was in the back of a van. This is all that I got and the bottom end is surplus if anyone is Interested?

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The prefix is 44M so all of you Monty fanatics will know it is a King Scorpion auto lube motor from mid 70s. At 246 cc and my first choice of engine size being 250. I am now thinking that I will make a better top end for my 247 powered 242. The cylinder studs are 10 mm instead of 8 mm (easy fix) and are on the same centre's making for an easier transplant than the 242 top end. Which meant boring the cases and relocating all of the studs. Here are some photos of the pre assembly:

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Graham, in case of EMERGENCY, BREAK GLASS

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I think that is a Thumb!

[Bully fanatic]

I`m really glad you included a photo of that sick bag Greg. There might be more than 1 person (me) reaching for that I reckon. I`m reaching for it anyway!! Also I`m not real sure about your thumb at the moment either. I think you have gone over to the dark side and turned completely evil. This might help! Rod, I have actually been known to work on an occasional Imitation Spanish Trials Bike now and then. I`m not really sure why though! Graham.

[Greg Harding]

Hi Everyone,

Just sharing an update on where I am up to and wondering if anyone can Help? The crinkly fin 44M cylinder slides straight on to 247 bottom end but is 7 mm higher than 247 so we have pressed the sleeves out. Now we are looking at boring the crinkly fin cylinder to take the 247 sleeve and reducing the deck height to match. What I am unsure about is the port timing and should we take material off both top and base of Cylinder?

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The transfer ports are about 4 mm wider front to back and I can match port the cases to the new cylinder.

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44M sleeve on left, 247 on right, the exhaust ports are a similar size in both cylinders and sleeves so I am wondering if we should simply adjust the heights to align the exhaust Tract? All the other ports will be determined by the 247 sleeve which matches the stroke or am I thinking about this all Wrong?

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I`m not real sure about your thumb at the moment either. This might help! Graham.

Graham, perhaps my thumb is too close to my Fingers?

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[Twinshock200]

There are a few useful bits and pieces on ebay at the moment for those basket case projects, here's a link to one of them,,,,,,,,,,,,,,http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/252813819123?

[TriCub]

Hi Everyone,

Just sharing an update on where I am up to and wondering if anyone can Help? The crinkly fin 44M cylinder slides straight on to 247 bottom end but is 7 mm higher than 247 so we have pressed the sleeves out. Now we are looking at boring the crinkly fin cylinder to take the 247 sleeve and reducing the deck height to match. What I am unsure about is the port timing and should we take material off both top and base of Cylinder?

1490262565030.jpg

The transfer ports are about 4 mm wider front to back and I can match port the cases to the new cylinder.

1490262589492.jpg

44M sleeve on left, 247 on right, the exhaust ports are a similar size in both cylinders and sleeves so I am wondering if we should simply adjust the heights to align the exhaust Tract? All the other ports will be determined by the 247 sleeve which matches the stroke or am I thinking about this all Wrong?

1490262620772.jpg

I`m not real sure about your thumb at the moment either. This might help! :Bultaco: :Bultaco: :Bultaco: Graham.

Graham, perhaps my :Bultaco: thumb is too close to my Fingers?

1490262531312.jpg

So you are putting the right side sleeve into the barrell on the left?
Why?
Getting the sleeve back to it's original height is important for the timing , getting the ports to match will be impossible with the crickly cylinder having much greater port heights. It will still run as the sleeve controls the timing. 7mm would normaly come of the bottom if there is enough meet there.

[David Lahey]

Here is another Legion bike (one bike composed of many).
At least 5 bikes supplied components for this little beastie (that's two Mark Keenan references in one posting)
2 x DT175G, 1 x TY175, 1 x DT175F and 1 x AG175
I have known for many years that the flywheel and ignition in this DT175F motor was from a TY175, and today I have worked out that it also has a TY175 crankshaft
Yes it's currently mostly an old trailbike, and it may become transformed into something resembling an old trials bike, or may not.
One thing I'm sure of is that it will be staying with just the one shockie

[TerrY]

Looks like it needs a few more donor bikes to finish it. Flywheel cover, Chain Guard, Shark Fin, Rear mudguard - just to name a few bits obviously missing. Maybe you can get to 10 donor bikes with a bit of effort.

[David Lahey]

Yes Terry but this is a "before" photo and most of those things you mention are easy peasy compared to what I am thinking about doing to the bike.
The flywheel cover is an interesting challenge. As you might imagine a TY175 flywheel is a fair bit bigger in diameter and width than a DT175 flywheel, and when I got that motor, it was in a TY175 bike and that is exactly how it was being ridden before I got it, with exposed flywheel. The DT175 cover is OK if you do some serious trimming inside the cover and machine down the flywheel weight but I would really like to keep the flywheel intact.
The pattern of attachment screws and the shape of the sealing surface for the magneto cover on that series of DT125/DT175/IT125/IT175/YZ125 motors is completely different to the TY175 and also different to the earlier Yamaha 125s and 175s and the AG175, so I can't just fit a TY175 cover.

[Greg Harding]

Hi Everyone,

Here is another Legion bike (one bike composed of many).
At least 5 bikes supplied components for this little beastie (that's two Mark Keenan references in one posting)
2 x DT175G, 1 x TY175, 1 x DT175F and 1 x AG175

David, love your Alpina, I think had some really good Ideas!
Thanks for the link Roger, I am pretty sure I have all of the bits I need but now that I am considering 247 sleeve, I will need an oversize piston kit?

So you are putting the right side sleeve into the barrell on the left?
Why?
Getting the sleeve back to it's original height is important for the timing , getting the ports to match will be impossible with the crickly cylinder having much greater port heights. It will still run as the sleeve controls the timing. 7mm would normaly come of the bottom if there is enough meet there.

Yes George, I am considering the 247 sleeve on the right into the crinkly finned cylinder on the left. Here is a sketch and approximate dimensions of the ports inside the cylinders with sleeves removed:

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There are a few differences mainly in the transfer duct only having 3 sides in the crinkly one using the sleeve for the 4th side. Now that I have thought about it a little more I am now thinking 2 mm off the top and 5 mm off the bottom and clean up the mismatch after sleeve goes back In? The castings are substancial and removing the material does not worry me. As you say, the sleeve controls the timing and I am not after ultimate performance but would like to keep the 247 power characteristics. Do you think these changes will be detrimental to power for Trials Use?

Why is a very good Question! The original 247 came out in the late 60s and the cylinder and head pretty much stayed the same in appearance. I am fitting a 70s motor into a 80s bike. Backwards I know and I have come to accept that is how I do things. Some models got the crinkly fins and some didn't, I prefer the look. Even knew this was the era to change the shape of your head:

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Or perhaps this is more appropriate:

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