Bush Mechanics - eat your hearts out

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BJ
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Bush Mechanics - eat your hearts out

Post by BJ »

Has this ever been done????

My Chinese made tractor decided to do a nasty, not only did it develop a knock that would rival King Kong with a sledge hammer it also managed to fire the dip stick 30' into the air :shock:

After a brief examination (means removing everything but the block and crankshaft I found the problem :? It appears the poor honing of the bores was letting diesel mix with the lubricant in the sump. The rate of the dilutution was about the same as the rate of oil being burnt so the dip stick always showed about the right level. Unfortunately, oil and fuel don't make a good lubricant and #2 big end decided to protest and started doing laps around the cranskshaft ending with about 4mm wear and a rapid drop in oil pressure. Not only did the bearing disintergrate but it also left some pretty nasty grooves in the crank.

The dilema is.... it is a massive job to remove the crank and block because it holds the entire tractor together including front diff and loader frame. Not only that, the tractor (with loader removed) is most likely only worth what it will cost to reco assuming I can get parts from China. This where the "Bush Mechanic" comes in. :twisted:

I figure I can resurface the #2 crank big end by fitting emery cloth in the conrod and winding the motor over on the starter motor. Then progress to finer grade abrasives until I have a reasonable surface back on the crank. I expect to take 2-3 thou off which then leave the issue of dressing back an undersize bearing and trying to get a reasonable fit to maintain oil pressure. If that works I will then hone the bores, fit new rings and see how long it goes. Surely it can't be worse than the way it was built new, I hope. I intend videoing the machining process, I'm sure it will inspire many a budding mechanic to take baling twine and fence wire to the next level.

Anyway, how do the talented mechanics out there rate my chances of success?

By the way, I don't work on bikes with the same degree of ground breaking engineering technique so you needn't worry about my Scorpa's!!
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Post by paulm »

Hi Scorps

You've just stopped me placing an order for a Chinese wonder machine to replace my trusty old Kubota+++ and a diesel mechanic I ain't but wouldn't the high compression ratio of a diesel highlight any inherent weakness in the bottom end of a - how shall I put it 'unique' solution such as the one you suggest?

But I like your style...

Paul Mac
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Post by David Lahey »

The biggest if is whether you can keep oil pressure with your "reconditioned" big end bearing. I suspect that honing the crank using emery cloth in the conrod would give you an out-of-round crank pin.

David's alternate bush mechanic solution

A far simpler solution is to just run it without that cylinder working:
Plug the oil hole in the No 2 crank pin
Reassemble the motor without No 2 conrod and piston
Cut off one end of the rockers for the No2 valves
Plug the fuel line for No 2 at the injector pump.
Don't muck around with the finish on the bores, just change the oil more often than you did before.
Yes it will vibrate a bit more but you didn't buy it for smoothness anyway did you?

David
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Post by Stu »

BJ,
Reference can be made a previous article in VMX magazine about undersized pistons in standard bores. Why not use a VB can wrapped aroung the piston? Well, this could be adapted for you use as well. :lol: :mrgreen:
Feet up, as always!
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Post by Neo »

Hi BJ,

The only great thing about cheap vehicles. Is that their parts are normally cheap too.

Are you checking out the best sources for a replacement engine?

Try eBay and http://www.findapart.com.au for local importers. And try http://www.alibaba.com/ to track down the Chinse exporters (who mostly claim to be the manufactures).

Failing that. I’d go for David’s idea. Except I'd cut off the non-working cylinder with a hacksaw. And fit carbon reeds to the exhaust outlets. And add three 4RT computers to it......Just to smooth thiings out, that much more….you know it’s worth the investment :lol:

Best of balance (on 3).

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Bush Mechanics....

Post by The Observer »

BJ

I'm not sure what this post is doing on this forum....
Obviously you are a priveledged user to be allowed to have it here...

Anyway, back to your problem. You've said what you are going to do to the "old number two"..What will you do to the other 3 cylinders to stop it happening to them as well?

Theres' a very good reason older tractors eg David Brown's and Fergies were made with 3 cylinders..They found out prior to general production that 4 cylinders were 1 too many for efficiency and made theirs with only 3 cylinders!! Instead of having 4 cylinders with average metalurgy, they made 3 cylinders with precision components.

From the photo, it looks to me like the holes for the push rods are way too large (unless it's a side valve motor) and they are the inverted valve head recesses.??

Once you have the covers back on it, it will make a great trials challenge if you were to build it into a section and put splitters on the canopy and tyres.

I hear that scrap metal prices are good at the moment...

David
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Re: Bush Mechanics....

Post by Neo »

The Observer wrote:BJ

I'm not sure what this post is doing on this forum....
Obviously you are a privileged user to be allowed to have it here...

Hey David,

Please remember that this section of the forum is Waiting in the queue -for- Non-specific topics of any nature.
It’s a great section because it recognises that we have other things to chat about sometimes :wink:

BJ, please keep us posted on your progress. I'd love to know how you get on . And drop me line if you think I can help some how.


Best of balance.

Neo
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Post by BJ »

Hi Guys

I thought I might get some interesting replies.

PaulM - Stick with the Kubota

David - I'm hoping the out of round prob will be overcome through maintaining even pressure by having emery fitted up much the same as the big eng bearing would sit in the bearing caps. Although I will have the rod connected to the piston there will be no greatly uneven load as the crankshaft rotates because the is no compression. I will then try and get the new bearing line-bored to be somewhere close to proper tolerances. Maintaining oil pressure will the test!

I would go for the 3 piston conversion (as it has run that way many times) however being only a 3 main bearing bottom end I suspect the out of balance issue could chop out the centre main very quickly.

Stu - I was thinking about shim brass to space out the bearing cap to give the new bearing more room but that was after emptying a few cans to help the thought process along.

TO - If the bearing reco works I hope the re-honing of the bores will stop the dilution probem and thus the engine will have better lubrication. The downside is, the improved compression and HP will most likely be too much for the reco bearing :oops:

The push rods are quite strange (like big valves with an adjuster where the collets go), the big holes are for the head of the push rod which is the cam follower.

Neo - Case New Holland (Fiat Group) now run the factory where the tractor was made and don't want to see their Australian market flooded with cheap imports (other than their own) and don't want to supply parts. I am tracking down retailers in China in the hope I can get some bits. The key aim behind this experiment is to save the 20 hrs labour in just getting the tractor apart. If I have to do all that I will then do a full reco or just import a new engine. 4RT???? Are they made in China too :?:

Well off to the shed I go!
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Tractor Maintenance 101

Post by gmcdesign »

Perhaps some preventative maintenance and suitable storage would've been appropriate BJ?
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Post by paulm »

You've seen my shed then...
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