Classic & Post Classic Eligibilty

[David Lahey]

twinshock/tribsa,
Haven't we got the rider grade thing working already in MA events for Twinshock? I'm thinking of the Qld Mototrials series and at the Twinshock Masters at Conondale having the two grades
David

[Twinshock]

Yeah, I know that Dave but I believe it should be considered nationally and maybe we could try it out in all "Open" events or perhaps there are not enough to make it worthwhile. I certainly think it should be considered at State and National Titles events.
Twinshock

[gristy]

G/day brief overview of Aussie pre65 bikes.There was a C15 with what looked likedMontesa forks,alloy triple clamps,Yamaha hubs & modified frame.Triumph cubs with Kiehn carbys,one was mine.Bantams with cub rear frame loops & one with what looked like TY front end.One of the only bikes that looked & was totaly of period was the Bully no electronic ignition, no frame modifications totally as produced.The rider is a A grade rider in Denman twinshock & rides pushbike trials so he can ride.
A few ideas after talking to a couple of people at titles (I was crook so I didn't get to talk to everyone)
Engines & frames - if the same as 64 up to 66 OK eg BSA Bantam, C15's,
and Triumph Cub. No frame modifications unless it was
done pre 65 and documented. No replica frames or kit
frames Wasp, Cheetah, homemade etc.
Engines & gearboxes - 75% original internals allows for unleaded valves and
hard to find pistons etc. (Honesty)
Brake hubs - one gentleman came up with the idea if not using original
hubs homolagated Honda 4" hub as on posties pre 96, virtually
the same as on Honda Cub and S90 pre 65. That way it makes
it easier to identify.

Just a few ideas to think about to help our class. I, unlike others in our class who try and hid modifications etc. I will tell you what I have done to my bike and help others to improve theirs. A good reference book is 'Classic British Trials Bikes' or 'Classic British 2 Stroke Trial Bikes' both by Don Morley. A good bloke to also help is Martyn Adams, Birdwood Motorcycle Engineering, Birdwood SA 0421 874513. He has not long moved here from England, was involved in pre65 trials and a member of Yorkshire classic. He can modify BSA frames with TY internals keeping original triple clamps and fork bottoms. He also supplies electronic ignitions, sprockets etc.

Regards,
Gristy

PS brt 650 - I had both feet on the scales but my arse was on the lounge!

[yamfan]

Before I start I wish to point out that this is not a dig at anyone in particular nor sour grapes just an observation.

I rode the nats on an unmodified TY175 which with the help of Chappy completed the event without a hiccup, I was happy with my ride and my score wouldn't have improved to any great extent even if I rode a TLR, Majesty, Fantic or post 80's Bultaco. Those top place getters in the post classics deserve their awards and could of quite happily of whooped my butt on a small wheeled TY80!...........

Is there an answer to riders competing in a post classics on machines with such obvious differences in abilities. A TLR is a massive jump from a TY250A as would be a BetaTechno against a Beta EVO in open solo. When postclassic numbers are so small to have a different line or different classes would be stupid.

Perhaps a handicap system similar to Venables might be the answer, 1 points added for every year after 65? then maybe riders will dig out their MAR OSSA's, TY250A's, and even TL125's and compete in the nats.

Untill more of these oldies start appearing in events we can't really bitch as to who has anextended swingarm of Tyforks on a KT or Hiboy frames or post classics with frames less than 2 years old and modern footrests, the list is endless!!!!!

Just my 2bobs worth

[David Lahey]

The idea of a Venables type bike age handicap certainly has appeal for getting more old twinshocks out in competition, but it is inherently flawed in the same way as Venables points are in Veterans class.
The flaw is that the easier the sections are, the more significant become the Venables points ie they become a bigger proportion of everyone's total score.
The Spanish are not that interested in pre-65 Trials bikes, but they are very switched-on about their Post Classic Trials bikes. Their rules provide separation between the eras within the Twinshock umbrella by having three (or four?) bike-age classes, and to prevent issues arising about modifications, the series rules specify what mods are allowed (almost nothing), and also specify which model bikes are eligible for each class, to avoid arguments on the day.
There may also be a "specials" class too but I'm a bit hazy on that.
I don't think we have the numbers to support this sort of system, but it certainly works well over there, with each of the bike age groups getting very good support.
When it comes to us in OZ, we have a continum between two extremes out there all enjoying themselves. There are the people who love certain bikes and don't give a toss if they are in some way disadvantaged points-wise by their bike choice, and the other extreme are the competitive types for whom bike choice is a matter of which bike will give them the best chance of winning whatever it is they are after. Both extremes and everything in between are perfectly fine and are one reason I find the whole Twinshock thing so interesting and fun (for me anyway).

[sharvie]

Being the owner of 1985 Honda TLR 250, having a penalty point added for each year post 1965 would soon stop me ridding the TLR. I would be far better off on a 1965 model Bully, then ride the TLR and start the day with 20 points on my card.

When the place getters at twinshock trials are often on points 4, 9 or 13 points a penalty for each year post 1965 would not put the most skillful ridders on the podium.

As David mentioned there are people who ride a particular model bike due to some sentimental attachement and others choose a bike due to its competive advantage - both are happy. As I did not start ridding trials until 1998 I have no sentimental attachement to any twinshock. Because of that I keep selling them and buying something else just to keep me interested.

Its pretty simple, riders who wan't to be competive seek out a competive bike and those who love a particular model or era don't worry about being highly competive, they ride because they love that bike.

Steven Harvie

[Twinshock]

I guess we can talk about this till we are blue in the face with everyone having relevant different opinions and then it will die off and be resurected before and after next years Nationals.
I think I'll just stick to SQTA and make our own rules up, what a lovely thought
Twinshock

[cedric van heerden]

Just to add my bit, in 1978 I was riding a 1974 Montesa 247, and modified the back end by moving the top shock mounts as far forward as possible, to take increase the limited travel on the back end, I now have a 247 that I ride in twin shock class and want to do the same to the back end, but was advised, maybe tongue in cheek, that unless it was a factory mod It would not be acceptable now. What is the ruling on that?
Cedric

[Twinshock]

Hi Cedric
A nice bit of welding and a good paint job and then let the detractors get the rule book out and and prove their point,,,,, isn't it,, "innocent until proven guilty"
Has there ever been a protest made formally and upheld regarding T/S or Classic eligibility in Aus, it would be awfully hard to prove.
Anyway, I remember that comment being made to you a couple of weeks ago and i think it was, "tongue in cheek" , your Monty was awesome, it just about outshone my Vibsa

Cheers
Twinshock

[Westy]

Question: If I entered a trial would I have 10 points on my card before starting if I rode my 74 RL? Also, is my bike classic, post classic or fully sick? I am not sure how to categorise them yet.