Trials Australia Forums

Well there's 6 rider's that are no longer coming maybe you can bump the entry fee up to $95 per rider that should cover those 6 rider's not coming
Or maybe sort out the problems and get more rider's.
Just for comparison i just attended a organised trail ride up here in qld were it cost me $80 and for that entry you got
2 days riding
2 meal tickets
Camping for fri and sat night
enduro cross if you wanted to enter it with a $500 prize for 1st place
Lots of entertainment both days
About 40 porta dunnys plus about 40 showers
200km of track's split up into multiple loops in different grades of skill
Now i would consider this good value for money and as a result there was 1200 rider's!!! the funny thing is it was ment to turn a big profit as a fund raiser for the local school
But even they had a family entry price of 1 adult and 1 jnr so for $110 your whole family could enter and ride all weekend

Maybe it would be worth readjusting the prices and add family entry and you may be suprised with a good turn out

Who remembers a few years ago when the NSW Titles looked like being 2 or 3 rounds. Well here is a club who is willing to organise a round to give you what you want/need to make this a true series . Luckily Manly club has had a good agreement with the Pacific Pk landowners since the 80's regarding entry fees which some other clubs using private land may not incur but the main money eater would have to be MA and MANSW fees. How about you ask them to give you a family deal on your licences and insurance at events.I have a good idea what the answer would be. I will try to make this round to observe and I pity anyone who wants to argue with me if I am. For those who know me I am still playing around on trials bikes with mates up here. Daryl Fox .

Daryl,

There was never any discussion regarding the rounds and the clubs who run these events. The whole discussion was in relation to the absence of family concession and higher single entry compared with other clubs.

With regards to your comment about the agreement that manly holds with pacific park, this has nothing to do with what i am trying to figure out, and i have previously stated that i am aware that any fees which do need to be paid to pacific park are not contributing to the high price of entries.

What you and everyone else must understand is that we would be having this same discussion if this event was held at pacific park or another property.

As for MNSW giving as a family discount this is an unrealistic proposal.

Maybe take into consideration that if there was a family concession you would be seeing more riders out there enjoying themselves.

I am sure if we looked at a pie graph of where entry fee's go the biggest piece would be MA and MNSW which cant be discounted. Also any payments to landholders I would say also is per person so again can't be discounted. What is left is maybe a contribution to trophies which is fair enough because there are people who go to compete and not just for fun. Also lunches, drinks etc for observers and officials and without these people you don't have a event. So if you take all these into consideration that probably doesn't leave much leeway for a club to offer much of a discount and I would not expect any club Ito subsidise my family.

Very interesting forum topic this one that alas I can't keep my nose out of!
SQTA has solved both of the MA fees and trophy hunter issues by becoming unashamably unaffiliated and eliminating trophies from our roster riding only for an end of season club championship and believe it or not, fun.
The "Sideshow Alley" logic of putting up prices because you aren't getting the numbers is doomed for failure and setting a very dangerous slippery slope precedent. All I ever hear and read on TA are the feel good statements on how we need to promote trials and attract new riders and this certainly isn't going to do it. If it's scaring the established riders off then you aren't going to attract any new ones are you? Has anyone ever calculated how much it would cost a new rider to give the sport a go? Well I have and it's not pretty. Join a club, $25, purchase a one event license, $45, pay an entry fee, and I hope they are riding in Qld as, thanks to SQTA, entry fees at least have stayed reasonably sensible at around $15 to $25 but that still all adds up to $80 to $90. Good luck! Maybe that’s why SQTA is powering at the moment, continually attracting new faces to the sport and injecting cash into the struggling trials related businesses at the same time, just quietly.
I'll give you all a couple of facts about SQTA and its pricing, a pricing that doesn't include any MA rider levees or license fees i must remind you.
We charge a $50 yearly membership fee that, with 50 adult riding members, just about covers our $20m Public Liability insurance premium. On top of that, we charge a $15 Solo & $20 Family entry fee for members and a $25/$35 for non members. We had an average of 55 riders, both affiliated and non affiliated, at all 10 of our events last year and averaged $500 profit per event after toilet hire, observer and property owners gifts, sausage sizzle ingredients, drinks & other associated costs are taken out. We don't ride on properties that charge a fee unless we want to in which case the club either pays for it or we add $5 or $10 to our entry fee to cover it.
We have also eliminated the executive committee stress that trials rider entry apathy brings with it by discarding the pre entry deal completely, as with a capped membership we know, within reason, how many riders are likely to show up at any of our events, but always leave room for a average of 12 non members to ride as long as they book in beforehand, i.e. no unannounced show ups are allowed on the day.
For interest sake, we are holding an unaffiliated open style event up here in two weeks time and entries closed and peaked yesterday at 120 , and I still haven't checked the P. O. Box yet for the heal draggers. We are charging $10 extra over and above the fees mentioned earlier. We hold one open style event like this per year with a typical email,/snail mail entry form lodgement cut-off date and adhere to a no late entry policy and will return any that come in late with the added advantage of taking entry fees and signatures on the day of the event making it easier for everyone and we don't care it there are no shows, we just tear up their entry form and get on with it.
There is no disputing that the biggest costs are ruling body levees and charges but if you want to ride at the pointy end of the sport with a possibility of representing your country than an organisation such as MA is a necessity but trials is predominantly a family sport and if it is going to prosper it is the families, not the solo's, that need to be catered for by making it affordable as they are the ones that usually can afford it least but often times contribute the most.
Personally I don't think making it cheap is the silver bullet for trials but it will sure tick one of the many boxes needing addressing to get it back on the rails.
Ian Rogers
SQTA President

Ian, if ever I move to South Queensland save me a spot in your membership. Good on you for breaking away . Daryl.

Hi All,

Id like to thank everyone for their active participation in the topic. All other things aside, Manly should just introduce a Family entry.

Regards,

Chuck

Here's some figures straight off the Motorcycling NSW website regarding Permit Fees and Rider levies.

National Open Permit fee: Minikhana or Moto-Trials $286.00
National Open Rider levies: Junior $8.80, Senior $13.20

Having run several Open Trials myself, considering paying for a portaloo, trophies, Pacific park riding fee's, permit, rider levies etc. If they get over 50 riders they will still finish well in the black financially.
Nobody wants any club to run at a loss that woulld be stupid, but there will be, as we have seen in the above forum less riders than they could have had.

As a state level offical for Moto-Trials thats my two bob's worth.

Chuck wrote:Hi All,

I have just printed out the supp reggs for the NSW round 3 to be conducted by Manly Warringah Club. I have noticed that there is no entry price listed for a family entry. This has made me wonder how many families are being deterred from riding by the high cost of entries? I understand that many 'behind the scenes' expenses are incorporated into running a trial however; a majority of other clubs across Australia have a family option available. So i ask the question why is it that Manly are unable to supply this option? Also why is the rate of single entries so high? Aren’t clubs were supposed to be non-profit organisations? And why are minders required to pay $50 and upward if no rider levy from their entries are being paid to MNSW? I may seem as though i am pointing the finger but i do feel that this is an issue which should be addressed. If anyone has any comments or are able assist me and many other riders to understand why this is occurring you are encouraged to voice your opinion.

Cheers

Chuck,
Minders are considered to be a competitor (See your MOMS 23.7.4.2), thats why they must have a MA licence and enter the event even though all they do is save other riders hurting themselves !!!
Clubs do have to pay a rider levy on them, BUT it's only $13.20 !!!!!
So even tipping in a bit towards the permit fee, Minders entry fee should be $20 tops.

There's another two bob's worth.

Hi all,

No disrespect to anyone, because I think the clubs and organisers do fantastic work at a considerably low cost
But from what I can gather the major issue here is attracting more riders and keeping the old riders in the sport ie. more entries.
* So straight away how can any club not offer a family entry? The thing that got me into trials was my family and although they are not riding any more it is not hard to see the best selling point for trials is it is a whole family sport... Lets not lose sight of that, play to your strengths.
* Next point is a chicken and egg situation, people like riding trials because its cheaper, but clubs can't offer cheap rates at the risk of running a loss due to lack of entries. I'm not sure what could be done about this but it does bring me to my next point...
* Turning riders away bacause they are late to enter is not the solution, any amount minus something is always gona be less. I am a bandit for the last minute entry, ok I realise that doesn't help my credability in this discussion but bear with me. Have we tried discounts for early entries? ie $60 for the first fortnight after the supp regs are released and $75 after that... And has anyone considered making an online entry form? So people can fill in their entry and submit it directly on Trial Aus, and all the details go to an administrator, with options for people to direct debit their entry fee. I have lost count of the amount of times I have filled out an entry form and never made it to the post office.
Ok thats all I got. Not sure if its two bobs worth but there it is...
Kristie