Tiger Cub Square barrel eligibility

[TriCub]

I have had another look and the small print reads.
,the square barrel and head from Feb 65,
We need an English teacher to take a look but to me because that paragraph is in between commas the from 65 refers to the barrel and head and not what comes after.
Yes there where 82 sent to france in 1964 but to me they would have had the oval heads and barrels.

[Geoff Lewis]

Hi All, Alan Phillipsons comments about me having a cry about the proposed rule changes at Denman are insulting and untrue and clearly show this individuals intent in this debate. I went to Denman because I said I would, in the hope that with a frank and open discussion we may be able to find a better way forward and also because I wanted to catch up with Gristy and others and ride what was an excellent trial. The fact is Alan Phllipson would not know what I said or did not say as he avoided me even after I made a point of introducing my self to him. From his comments it is clear his objective now is to hold any pre 65 competitor ,who does not agree with his views, up to unfair criticism and derision. The fact is that these issues were not issues until Alans conterversial win in the 2009 Aus Championships.So where does the fault really lie? In 16 years of Classic competition I have endevoured to promote the class and prepare my bikes within the framework of the moms. I have never claimed my bike was stock or original. Nor after the events in the Queensland titles would it have been appropriate for it to be so.IT IS NOT A CONCOURSE COMPETITION! IT IS A TRIAL! I believe that appointing an expert scrutineer as was done in Queensland is a positive step.

[A.Phillipson]

you introduced yourself as the victorian trouble maker.

Can you blame me for not wanting to talk to you. You started the whole topic about changing the rules(to get my bike banned).then when they were changed you didnt like it. This was stated on the forum.

also when you came up to denman you were saying that classics should ride b grade(at our club)

im not trying to sway pre 65 competitor,im just having my say,this is a public forum where members can say what they feel. You have said what you want and feel many many times now, and when i come and say what i want you winge about it. You my friend are a hypocrite

[Geoff Lewis]

Hi Alan, Please do not mistake me as your FRIEND!

[TriCub]

Geoff and Alan.
This post is about the eligability of Tiger Cub Square barrels and heads. Your last posts don't seem to be about that subject, so can I suggest you make a new thread and take your friendly comments there.
I would be interested to hear your opinions on the Square head and barrel thing though. Have you had a look at the page from the online book preview of the Tiger Cub Bible?

[TriCub]

I couldn't work out why Roger would have told us about a page in The Tiger Cub Bible that didn't prove his case and allow him to ride at the Aust tiles. Not having the book myself and only going by the Web preview of the book I ordered the book from our local library. They didn't have it but borrowed it from the Brisbane Library at Corinda , took a few weeks to turn up.
On recieving the book I had a look at page 163 and there it was stating that all French Cubs had square heads and barrels and that 82 where delivered in 1964. This was clearly different to the page from the online book preview.
I then contacted the author Mike Estall in England who runs the Tiger Cub register and the Publishers Veloce(Email is a wonderfull thing). They confirmed that the book has been revised a couple of times since the first publishing and that the page 163 of the Web preview(ISBN 978-1-904788-09-6) is the latest. It states that only the French Army Cubs from Feburary 1965 had the square components. Mike Estall also pionted out page 108 and 203 of his book which clearly show that any machine with the square heads and barrels would be post Feb 65. It seems that the new heads and barrels where only on bikes that come out of the BSA factory at Small Heath after Feburary 1965.

So it now rests with the Trials Commisioners and MA to make a ruling as to the eligability of these components as they clearly do not comply with our current rules.

[Geoff Lewis]

Hi George and others, Its no secret that I am not a great tiger cub fan so this issue doesn't affect me directly but I have friends who like to ride these bikes. I take it then, that , you think the square barrels should not be eligible George? My opinion is, youv'e got to look twice to see any difference between the oval and square barrels and I believe there is no performance advantage? The solution could be as simple as grinding the edges of the barrel down to the desired shape? I did some surfing and found a mob in England that sell oval barrels and heads and lots of other terrific Tiger Cub stuff. If it were me being affected by a possible square barrel ban I think I would bite the bullet (no not enfield) and go the whole 250cc hog, they have oval barrels in standard and big bore.Turn a negative into a positive. It is UPB UK limited. Have a look, the stuff seems of high quality.I know its pricey but compared to the competitor on a modern bike we get out of the sport very cheaply. Consider that a person who buys a new bike loses roughly $2,000 resale on his first ride.Our bikes in general appreciate over time.People think nothing of spending three or four thousand dollars on some goofy looking low profile wheels for their jalopy! I have just taken delivery of my new Vibsa and boy, you get a lotta meat with your taters with these old greeves engines! Good Luck Cubbers!
Regards Geoff

[David Lahey]

Great to hear you are sticking with the two-strokes Geoff

[two cubs]

Hi Geoff, and fellow cub riders i have had a look at the site in the UK and they do have some great stuff for cubs, and a 250cc oval barrel and head kit would be the ideal setup, but to me increasing the engine size even if it looks the same from the outside would be cheeting. The two cubs that i own, are both 199cc one oval and the other square and they both perform the same in a trial, they both puff out a bit of smoke when the weather gets a bit warm and the motor get hot waiting in a queue. I don't see what the problem is with the square barrel eligibility in the cub bible i have read, states they were in cubs sent to France in 1964, now in the revised edition they were not arount until 1965.
I would rather have a 199cc square barrel and compete in classic trials with other cubs of the same engine capatity.

[TriCub]

Geoff.
I feal in the current climate of rules changes happening that the Square heads and Barrels are definetly not eligible with our current rules. The rules state that the age of a machine is determined by the newest major component and the head and barrel are both major components as defined by the MOM's. The bikes that competed at the Australian titles with the Square bits only did so because of the Tiger Cub Bible stated that 82 machines went to the French Army in 1964. The page was incorrect and has since been revised, stating that only machines made after Feb 65 had the Square heads and barrells.

As far as the there being on advantage to using the newer parts. I agree that there is no power difference but there is a big improvment in heat rejection and heat is a big problem with Cubs. If half way through a section an overheating engines starts to run badly with vapourising fuel and the engine with the bigger fins runs well in the same instance , which machine has the advantage? If bigger fins were not needed on trials bike why are all modern bikes water cooled?

Two Cubs.

If you have a look at page 108 of the Tiger cub Bible it clearly states that the first 82 cubs that went to france had the oval Heads and Barrels. This is in the first version of this book but on one bothered to read that page.
The engine size of any machine is going to make a difference to power but are we able to police it and do we ride sections that need a lot of power. Also how many bikes out there have their original engine capacity , ignitions ,porting ,cams exhausts and compression ratio or whatever else makes engines go better.

If these components are to be used an edition to the MOM's needs to happen to allow their eligability. I personaly don't care weather the rules are changed because with the Carb and Spanish rules going through next year I won't be able to ride my Cub in classic as I do not intend to change to an English carb.