Basket Cases

[Bully fanatic]

The Green Italjet frames were a lot heavier than the white ones Greg. The Piumas also had an aluminium rear axle in them too. We used to weld bars on the sides of the under frame rails to protect the engine cases too back in the day. it actually worked very well. Didn`t stop you from flattening those under engine frame rails though! Good luck finding a M199 engine though. There is probably a few floating around in England I suspect.

[David Lahey]

I recently made some progress towards putting a 1970s together from 2.5 Basket Cases in the hope of reliving yet another motorbike experience from my youth.
The quiz question is for someone to identify what model this is.
I have deliberately taken the fuel tank and seat off because that would have made the quiz way too easy.
There is more than one model that it could be from what is visible in the photos so it's fair that naming any of them would be a winning answer.
When you answer, please say why you think it is the model you have nominated.
For Greg Harding - no I haven't weighed the frame.
For Bullylover - yes I'm in love with it already.
For Rod - good luck beating Greg Harding and Bullylover.
For Chippy - good luck and don't worry about why I mentioned you here.

[Rod]

Alpina from around '71/'72. M80 Sherpa T from same era has forward facing tensioner.

[Greg Harding]

Hi Everyone,

When you answer, please say why you think it is the model you have nominated.
For Greg Harding - no I haven't weighed the frame.
For Bullylover - yes I'm in love with it already.
For Rod - good luck beating Greg Harding and Bullylover.
For Chippy - good luck and don't worry about why I mentioned you here.

David, perhaps Terry Bogwheel should get a mention because I think he used to own one of them? My thoughts are M85 because I think they were the biggest production run and I like to play the odds?

The Green Italjet frames were a lot heavier than the white ones Greg. The Piumas also had an aluminium rear axle in them too. We used to weld bars on the sides of the under frame rails to protect the engine cases too back in the day. it actually worked very well. Didn`t stop you from flattening those under engine frame rails though! Good luck finding a M199 engine though. There is probably a few floating around in England I suspect.

Graham, it seems that evolved their models as parts became available or ran out? There is talk of true Piumas and I think I have one as it has Aloooominium axles in both ends, drilled clutch basket and no blinker mounts on the left rear of the frame. Also I have seen Aloooominium axles in the front only! The oval tubed frames like the one below with both blinker mounts, round tubed frames with both blinker mounts and like mine without. Their sales brochures and owners manuals have photos with varying components. Here is a Green on Green oval tube frame and it is about half a kilo heavier than a "true" Piuma frame and one and a half kilos lighter than a M199:

IMG_20221213_161930.jpg (1.3 MiB) Viewed 949 times

IMG_20221213_161942.jpg (1.4 MiB) Viewed 949 times

[David Lahey]

Alpina from around '71/'72. M80 Sherpa T from same era has forward facing tensioner.

Rod you sure won that one. Yes definitely 71/72 era Sherpa T or Alpina.
Was the chain tensioner being the "wrong way" the only clue?

[David Lahey]

Hi Everyone,

When you answer, please say why you think it is the model you have nominated.
For Greg Harding - no I haven't weighed the frame.
For Bullylover - yes I'm in love with it already.
For Rod - good luck beating Greg Harding and Bullylover.
For Chippy - good luck and don't worry about why I mentioned you here.

David, perhaps Terry :Bultaco: Bogwheel should get a mention because I think he used to own one of them? My thoughts are :Bultaco: M85 because I think they were the biggest production run and I like to play the odds?
/quote]
Greg that is a very logical choice. It reminded me to make a future post about the different versions/series of this model. There are different versions of this model made for different countries and different versions in time sequence, much like the three series of model 49 Sherpa Ts.
I also hope Terry Bogwheel has a go. He might even be able to say definitively which model it is and which series of that model it is. Brownie is another one who stands a good chance of narrowing it down beyond Rod's answer.

[sherpa]

Looks like a M92/91 with an earlier set of forks and front wheel. I also had a new genuine Piuma back in the day. It had dural axles front and rear and it was a massive improvement over the earlier all green bike. It was significantly lighter and the motor was quicker revving and more powerful as well due in part to a drilled primary drive flywheel. Philippe Berlatier came 6th in the world championship in 1983 and 4th in 1984 on a very standard looking bike.
Cheers Greg

[David Lahey]

Looks like a M92/91 with an earlier set of forks and front wheel. I also had a new genuine Piuma back in the day. It had dural axles front and rear and it was a massive improvement over the earlier all green bike. It was significantly lighter and the motor was quicker revving and more powerful as well due in part to a drilled primary drive flywheel. Philippe Berlatier came 6th in the world championship in 1983 and 4th in 1984 on a very standard looking bike.
Cheers Greg

Greg, about your . It sounds like it was a good thing. Can you say how your Piuma was to ride compared with a like your current 325?

About my ancient project: with this bike I discovered that model 85 Alpina production continued beyond the introduction of the recessed swingarm pivot design change.

[Bully fanatic]

I missed this one. I guessed M85 as soon as I saw the frame because I have one sitting outside my front door with no engine or tank and seat in or on it. Not mine though.

[sherpa]

Hi David, with regards to the Piuma I went from a 199A Sherpa to a 349 White Cota and then the Piuma. I felt more at home on the Italjet I guess because of it's Bultaco origins. I rode a couple of the early green italjets which I really didn't like as they sort of felt heavy and unresponsive. The white bike was a completely different animal, feeling a lot lighter, more nimble and with better power. Comparing it to a Bultaco back then it had it's advantages, six speed box, primary kickstart and better brakes. Maybe the Butaco felt a little more stable and planted and maybe a little stronger bottom end power, overall probably not a lot to pick between the two and more about how each bike would have been set up.
Cheers Greg