pre-65 Spanish?

[Twinshock]

Has anybody noticed,, its started already, another M10 suddenly appearing, from the corners of sheds all over the place, see it in Bultaco M10 forum.
Vote on the front page "Pre 65 - No Spanish" or this is going to get worse.
I've already started to restore my RL Suzuki that was built on December 31st 1964 !!!!
Twinshock

[David Lahey]

Roger my posting about Hamish Macbeth's M10 that he was selling was in 2007, and at that time I was under the impression that the M10 was a 1965 model. I'm no longer so sure of that being the case.

[Twinshock]

Thanks David, I did pick it up after a while. I notice nobody has commented on my Dec 64 RL Suzuki, I guess they've sussed me out by now. Seriously building a bike at the moment tho',,,, can't say anymore !!!

[mel&themonty]

Has anybody noticed,, its started already, another M10 suddenly appearing, from the corners of sheds all over the place, see it in Bultaco M10 forum.
Vote on the front page "Pre 65 - No Spanish" or this is going to get worse.

So its come to this. Campaigning against other people bikes?! What a sad state of affairs.

Thanks so much for informing us of the incoming threat of the Bultaco M10, we surely must rid the class of them, as they are obviously the scourge of the earth.

I notice nobody has commented on my Dec 64 RL Suzuki, I guess they've sussed me out by now.

Maybe no one cares.

[A.Phillipson]

One report I kept from the December 1st issue of the Motorcycle News was that Sammy Miller won a Midland Centre event on his Bultaco the day after competing in the previous days British Experts trial. All very well but the date on the paper was 1965 not 1964 as previously advised from a couple of sources. I have the clip and its as clear as daylight and
Regards
Twinshock

You have a paper printed with that date, Wasnt the trials in december 1964? so the paper was printed late. I dont think this proves anything and it shows your clutching at straws to try prove my bikes not manufactured and competed before 31st of December 1964.

[Twinshock]

Hi Alan
I'm not trying to prove when your bike was manufactured I was simply stating a fact off a newspaper cutting that I had, it was also correct that Sammy Miller rode his bike in a trial in December 64 but the general concensus of opinion is that M10's went into production and out to the retail showrooms in mid 65.
Pre 65 class was introduced shortly afterwards to specifically preclude the Spanish bikes from Classic competition to preserve that particular era of bike.
Cheers
Twinshock

[Starky]

Hi Alan

Could we get this M10 bike 'Carbon Dated'?

I hope you have not cleaned out the exhaust in your extensive and very impressive resto, so we can settle this matter once and for all.

Sorry I am being silly.

If it makes any difference I will ride against you anytime and think myself privileged as I am only in the game for the fun and contrary to a conversation I once had with David Lahey I now only live for the old bikes.

[David Lahey]

Hey Starky I like the idea of carbon dating. Good thinking. I was just about to suggest going for a ride in Dr Who's TARDIS and call in at the Bultaco factory in December 1964 for a quick squizzy at what was being put together at the time.

[A.Phillipson]

Carbon dating sounds good,how ever i got rid off all the build ups when it was built,sorry guys.

maybe we couldget some metalogist to check the grain structure of the metal of the frame to prove its year.
even better the metalogist should check eveything on the classic bikes as part of scrutineering.
examples:
Rims
Hubs
frames
engine internals
engine casings

this would be one way to stop the highly modified bikes from competing

[freddyj]

howdy all, after many years out of trials i have been watching this list with interest and waiting for someone to pick up what I'm about to say, no one has so here i go. The rider of the bike in question wrote
"My understanding to classic trials its to ride an older bike in trials to have fun. I will honestly say that my experience at the national was fun for the fact that I was riding my old bike with my father, however this experience was not fun at all for the fact that every one that rode classic didn’t even acknowledge me there, other that to complain about my bike. I thought trials was a gentleman’s sport. The nationals weekend proved that its nothing more than a sport for people to act like teenagers and winge about what bikes people ride, and the hide behind there computer were they can say what they what with no come backs. Maybe we shouldn’t worry about it and get out there and ride our bikes?"
This is all well and good but like it or not it was a national title event, not every one will take it seriously but people have the right to. If your there to have 'fun' then what others think about you or your bike wouldn't matter. And if it was just 'fun' then why didn't you ride it non-competetive? You still would have won but not had the experience you had. Why should I have to do that I hear you ask? You were obviously keen to win the national title, so it must have been a bit more then 'fun' for you.
He then goes on to write:

About the protest, Macca had already said before accepting my application that he has done the research and was more than happy that the bike was designed in November 1964,and it competed in December 1964. Does this not make it eligible? The rules say it must look period and meet certain requirements to be aloud to compete.

I assume 'Macca' was the chief stewart and also a mate. You obviously knew well in advance that you were bringing a gun to a knife fight other wise there would have been no need for Macca to do this or was it a favour for a mate? If it was then I would think MA would be interested in investigating that. This is further backed up by the following:

" When I mentioned it to macca in out discussions he said because there competed previously there accepted. To truly justify your bikes eligibility I think you need to prove its manufacturing date with a covering letter from a classic trials historian, basically no letter no ride. Macca wanted to prove my bike with a letter, I asked why am I the only one, so he said no to worry about it."

If Macca was the chief stewart, if he asked you for the proof, it should have been given to him or is every one allowed to have these little appeal sessions. I would have thought that the appropiate proof would have then shut every one up. Why only you? once again you knew it was going to cause issues. if you don't have your licence with you one day does the stewart say don't worry about it? No he says sorry you can't ride. On to the next point:

"I spoke to Macca and he said that if any protests were lodge he would ignore them as your asking him to over look his decision from before the event. Because of the hostility towards me and my bike I left, and the title of Australian champion doesn’t mean anything to me now because im so hated by my fellow riders."

I'm truly sorry that the title means nothing to you now, but wasn't it only for the fun of it any way.And as for above was this another favour for a mate? What are the rules? I know in other motor sports the first 3 positions have there bikes impounded for a period of time to allow for protests. I'm sorry, Macca said it was ok and would blow off any one who did protest. Is this common practise in trials? If someone did protest would they have had there fee returned or would it have been gratfully expcepted even though the protest would have been ignored.

The way I figure it is that you went to the event knowing that there would be issues, you didn't want to provide any documentation to prove your case, you say it was for the fun of it but now say the title means nothing because of the issues that have arisen because you chose to do this the way you have. I'm sure your a very nice person but I also suspect that you like stirring the pot some what. Me personaly, if I had been in your position I would have had all the proof that was needed and offered to take the whinging people to the steward so as to clear it up, not hide behind a deal done behind closed doors with Macca. As far as the legality of the bike, don't know,don't care. I just see this as a very amature way of handling an issue on what, to some people is the reason they ride year in year out. Have your fun, ride the bike, but don't complain when you wave a red rag at a bull and it charges.