Re: 2015 Proposed rule changes
Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 1:23 pm
Allan, thanks for your response.
The rules (old or new) don't mention capacity or flow-on models at all. What's mentioned above in the Guidelines is simply what can/will be deduced from the rules when given a bit of thought.
The Pre-65 rules can be summarized by three simple questions:
1) Was the model available to the public before 1 Jan '65?
2) Are all major components "visually indistinguishable" from those available before '65 (Applies particularly to parts used from later models, &/or replica parts)
3) Are all minor components "visually compatible" with the Pre65 era?
(Need a definite "Yes" to all three questions.)
Altho the rules (old or new) do not specifically mention flow-on models, let alone define them (literally), the rule on major components effectively defines them as models whose major components are all "visually indistinguishable", cos the bike has to pass that rule & if one major component is different it won't pass.
Sooner or later people realize that if all major components of a model produced after '65 are "visually indistinguishable" from those available before '65 then the whole bike can legitimately be used. Since such models are widely referred to as "Flow-on models", after doing our homework looking at major components we listed several models as such, with the provisos that they "may be eligible" & you need to double-check the major components for yourself.
ie The models listed as Flow-on models are those for which, after considerable research, we came to the conclusion had frames, forks, brakes, hubs & all external engine castings which were all "visually indistinguishable" from those available on other models available before '65.
These are clearly labelled "Guidelines" ( NOT rules) & are open to review. If anybody can show us models that should or should not be on the list it will be modified. (In fact the list above has already been edited/updated today.)
But maybe we should have listed them as "Models whose major components are all visually indistinguishable, as far as we know, from those available before 1965". Perhaps we will.
This is also how the reference to capacity (under Flow-ons) came about. On some models/engines at least one major component is noticeably different. eg the 230/250 Ossa engine & the 250 Bultaco & Montesa engines all have at least one major component noticeably diff to their smaller 160/175/200 engines - sufficient to exclude them from the Flow-on list.
Typically the cylinder &/or head has diff shape, size &/or number of fins. It's the same issue as with some Triumph Cubs, & we have endeavoured to apply the same interpretation of the rules across the board to all makes/models so as to maintain consistency. On the 4-speed Bul/Mon/Ossa machines the engine capacity can be used to indicate whether the major components are all "visually indistinguishable" or not, so that's what we did, keeping it simple. ie Under 200 Bul/Mon/Ossa 4sp models are in; 230/250 models are out.
You might also notice that it's only the road & trail Spanish models (4 speed)that are included under Flow-ons. None of the trials models are allowable as flow-on models. Apart from the engine differences mentioned above, frames are a major component & their trials frames are different to what was available pre65 (tho some of them them are only marginally different).
Hope this helps. But if anybody is still confused on any issue please don't hesitate to raise it. Better to sort it out now before the season next year.
The rules (old or new) don't mention capacity or flow-on models at all. What's mentioned above in the Guidelines is simply what can/will be deduced from the rules when given a bit of thought.
The Pre-65 rules can be summarized by three simple questions:
1) Was the model available to the public before 1 Jan '65?
2) Are all major components "visually indistinguishable" from those available before '65 (Applies particularly to parts used from later models, &/or replica parts)
3) Are all minor components "visually compatible" with the Pre65 era?
(Need a definite "Yes" to all three questions.)
Altho the rules (old or new) do not specifically mention flow-on models, let alone define them (literally), the rule on major components effectively defines them as models whose major components are all "visually indistinguishable", cos the bike has to pass that rule & if one major component is different it won't pass.
Sooner or later people realize that if all major components of a model produced after '65 are "visually indistinguishable" from those available before '65 then the whole bike can legitimately be used. Since such models are widely referred to as "Flow-on models", after doing our homework looking at major components we listed several models as such, with the provisos that they "may be eligible" & you need to double-check the major components for yourself.
ie The models listed as Flow-on models are those for which, after considerable research, we came to the conclusion had frames, forks, brakes, hubs & all external engine castings which were all "visually indistinguishable" from those available on other models available before '65.
These are clearly labelled "Guidelines" ( NOT rules) & are open to review. If anybody can show us models that should or should not be on the list it will be modified. (In fact the list above has already been edited/updated today.)
But maybe we should have listed them as "Models whose major components are all visually indistinguishable, as far as we know, from those available before 1965". Perhaps we will.
This is also how the reference to capacity (under Flow-ons) came about. On some models/engines at least one major component is noticeably different. eg the 230/250 Ossa engine & the 250 Bultaco & Montesa engines all have at least one major component noticeably diff to their smaller 160/175/200 engines - sufficient to exclude them from the Flow-on list.
Typically the cylinder &/or head has diff shape, size &/or number of fins. It's the same issue as with some Triumph Cubs, & we have endeavoured to apply the same interpretation of the rules across the board to all makes/models so as to maintain consistency. On the 4-speed Bul/Mon/Ossa machines the engine capacity can be used to indicate whether the major components are all "visually indistinguishable" or not, so that's what we did, keeping it simple. ie Under 200 Bul/Mon/Ossa 4sp models are in; 230/250 models are out.
You might also notice that it's only the road & trail Spanish models (4 speed)that are included under Flow-ons. None of the trials models are allowable as flow-on models. Apart from the engine differences mentioned above, frames are a major component & their trials frames are different to what was available pre65 (tho some of them them are only marginally different).
Hope this helps. But if anybody is still confused on any issue please don't hesitate to raise it. Better to sort it out now before the season next year.
They fit the criteria of being pre 1965 and they have 