JC1 wrote:David, I'd have tho't it'd have to be an M91 (of '72-74) since it's got the extra tubes running down to the swingarm pivot, which the earlier models didn't have.
Tank of course is not standard - could be cut-down slimline tank or earlier M49 Sherpa. Difficult to tell from the pic. Seat is something different too. Doesn't look like a Sherpa one - perhaps off the first model Alpina.
M49 tank has central filler, the slim one-piece tank has an offset filler like the one in the photo
I am going to go off topic here again and say David you know that I only like to cause international incidents not controversy. I have cast iron liners in both of my brakes now so they work very well. wet or dry. Greg, the works Kawasaki rider was having a bad day I believe or that is what he is saying anyway. I have been rubbing it in a bit though. Just to set the record straight, Francisco (Paco) Bulto left Montesa because Pedro Permanyer wanted to stop the competion bikes and Paco reckoned they needed competition bikes to improve the whole range. They really disagreed over this so Paco said goodbye. You can tell by the results who was right. A few days later quite a few of the engineers from Montesa turned up on Paco`s doorstep and asked him if he wanted to start a new company. As you all know he did. That is how Bultaco started. The only Montesa that I have really had anything to do with was an old 172 which had shocking brakes no matter what you did to it. Graham.
I'm sticking with M91 for that black bike. If you have a closer look it still has the central down-tube under the seat (& the old style air-filter arrangement), but it has the extra Y-tubes as well which came out part way thro the M91/92 production run - my guess is for the extra power of the 325 engine - & continued on the M124/125 & M150/151 models. It was simply a modification to M49/80 style frame.
The 2nd generation frame with no central downtube under the seat came out on the M158/159, circa 75/76. There are a number of tell-tale differences. At a casual glance the M91/92 & 124/125 & 150/151 frames look similar to the 158/159 & later style but on looking closer they are very different. Much easier when you see them side by side.
The seat could be anything. The very 1st Alpina had a small single seat not much bigger than a Sherpa T seat, not like the longer double seat on most Alpinas, but it could be M49 Sherpa w extra padding & a diff seat cover.
"Men are never more likely to settle a matter rightly than when they can discuss it freely"
it doesn't have a vertical post as the post goes straight up not on an angle, its not a 325, i still think 74/75. That white bit on the air filter box is just sunlight coming from between the tank and the seat creating an alusion that there may be another pipe there. The bike is facing west and the sun is low see the shadows of the wheels.
I wasn't suggesting it was a 325 - that's obvious from the round 9-fin barrel which the 325 never used - just that the extra downtubes in the Y-section as you call it were added to the slim-line models' frame to cope with the 325's power, & the 250 used the same frame.
The "white bit" you mention is indeed light. If you know what you're looking for you can see it's the gap between the front face of the airbox & the back of the central vertical down-tube. You can see that vertical down-tube again behind the engine & see that the engine is a long way forward of the swingarm pivot to give room for it. (On the new generation Sherpa frame of late '75, the pivot is much closer to the engine.)
I think you'll find there was another Sherpa T frame that you've forgotten about. I'll go over to the other thread & post pics for you to compare with the black bike.
"Men are never more likely to settle a matter rightly than when they can discuss it freely"
Back in the day, if memory serves me correctly, none of the bikes had brakes that worked when wet although TY brakes seemed to dry out the fastest, I also remember some tough sections in the Nullarbor mountains until a Bultaco rider stuffed up the enviroment, those mighty Montesa's float over the ground by comparison. Seriously I remember carving grooves through the brake shoes & chamfering the leading edge in an effort to improve braking, I can't recall what the reasoning was behind filing down the leading edge, I also remember air fork conversions, drill holes in your fork caps & fit tyre valves & after Suzuki released the RM series moto-x we all had to have lay down shocks & remodeled the upper mounting points, it was a different world then, mind numbing substances where cheap & in plentiful supply & we all indulged too freely, which would also explain why people bought Bultaco's.
Kombivan wrote: can anyone tell me what year model that Black sherpa T is in "trials for back pain" post, i think it was a 72 but never knew for sure? It was 5 speed with the same frame as a 1972 and cut down tank and a comfortable seat put on it.
Thought I would move the photo closer:
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While the BULTACO brains trust is fully engaged, can any of you tell me which model is ridden really well on the back wheel in the movie "On Any Sunday"? It has a lefthand (WRONG SIDE) rear brake and he has a hat like Bully fanatic, you know the one that VOLVO drivers have!
There must be a connection with Gregs and as they have just restored a 247T on American Restorations
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Now they have finally got the spanner going the right way, plus both Rick and Greg rode the 247T like it was meant to be ridden almost makes up for leaving the rear guard off the coin operated Italjet!
Not going to mention the rear silencer because they have done such a nice job!
2017 Newsflash: RUST IS THE NEW BLING ! Team Hardwood, the only licenced trials riders in Coffs Harbour! Miles of Smiles Greg Harding
I did one myself a few years back 2006, 247 trials cost me $10,000 because i had to buy everything nos as I only had a frame and tank to start with. My other 247 in 2003 cost me very little about $1500. If you want a concourse resto basiclly everything has to be replaced or reconditioned. In about 6 weeks I will have a brand new 1980 cota and I don't want to do the maths.
Greg Harding wrote:Hi Everyone, While the BULTACO brains trust is fully engaged, can any of you tell me which model is ridden really well on the back wheel in the movie "On Any Sunday"? It has a lefthand (WRONG SIDE) rear brake and he has a hat like Bully fanatic, you know the one that VOLVO drivers have!
Ha - I just watched some of the movie "Naturally Free" to try and work out which model Bultaco featured in the wheelies, thinking that was what Greg was asking about. After all that I just read Greg's post again and see that he was asking about the Bultaco in the movie "On any Sunday" The "On Any Sunday" wheelie Bultaco is easy - it's an M49 and the rider in the Volvo hat is the father of Debbie Evans Leavitt The Bultaco in "Naturally Free" was harder to work out, but I reckon it is a late series M92, my guess based on it having the frame tubes like Kombivan's old bike, fork tubes with tapered tops, a square-finned barrel and a triangle muffler
can anyone tell me what year model that Black sherpa T is in "trials for back pain" post, i think it was a 72 but never knew for sure? It was 5 speed with the same frame as a 1972 and cut down tank and a comfortable seat put on it.
as they have just restored a 247T on American Restorations
