Towards more inclusive Classic eligibility

[JC1]

Gents, as many of you know there were two proposals to MA for changes to eligibility of Classics to make them more inclusive, but unfortunately they were not supported by the Trials Commission (TC). You can view the minutes here (scroll down to TL621 & 622):
http://www.ma.org.au/fileadmin/user_upl ... l_2016.pdf

One proposal, corresponding to minute TL622, was to allow Cub square barrels in Pre65. The other proposal, corresponding to minute TL621, was to include other flow-on models ‘in the same boat’ as well (eg Cub square barrels, 4sp Bantams, points-in-sidecover C15/B40s, 2-bolt Honda 90s etc) by moving the cut-off date from Dec 64 to Dec 66 so as to include them all (ie somewhat like a 2012 proposal to change pre65 to pre70.)

In both cases the Commission noted that such machines can be ridden as Specials under the current rules so no changes were warranted.

MA says feedback was welcome so I took the initiative to find out more about the Commission’s thinking, & had a worthwhile discussion with the chairman, which shed useful light on some misconceptions. We’ll get to that shortly but first a brief recap of relevant eligibility issues:

In 2010, new evidence came to light from the latest edition of Mike Estall’s authoritative book, The Tiger Cub Bible (2007) which conclusively established that no production square barrel Cubs were available until Feb ’65. (see forum thread: “Tiger Cub square barrel eligibility”) Estall confirmed this via email. This meant they were now known to be ineligible (strictly speaking) for Pre65 under the existing rules whereas they had previously been thought to be eligible, which put owners in an unenviable position.

NB - the rules did not change to banish them. They have never outlawed square barrels (then or since). What changed was that new evidence came to light.

However since the general consensus indicated that they are acceptable to most interested parties & that Classics needed to be more inclusive in general (eg see 2013 forum thread: "Cub barrels.”) there’s subsequently been several moves to legitimately incorporate them, & other models ‘in the same boat’, into the Classic rules. If nothing were done, they would remain strictly ineligible for P65 so if somebody protested, it could well be upheld which isn't exactly desirable.

Now back to the discussion with the Commission Chairman. He’d done his homework regarding Classics in Oz, on several counts. eg he knew the numbers of classics typically turning up to compete in each state, both title & non-title events, ie very low numbers.

Here is a summary of his perspective (as I understand it from that conversation):

• They rate “participation” highly in Classics. The more participants the better.

• With the low numbers, they believe it is practical to have all Classics compete together, so one inclusive class is preferable – ie sufficiently inclusive to accommodate whatever people are competing on. They do not wish to divide Classics in two, as it appears from their response to the two proposals this year (see minutes TL621 & 622).

• With the current rules offering three sub-classes/options under the ‘umbrella’ of Classic - ie P65 Heavyweight, P65 Lightweight & P68 Special – the Commission notes there is insufficient participation to support 3 divisions, or even 2, & therefore encourages Classic competitors to work together with event organizers, State bodies & MA towards a single class in competition events and in the rules.

• They are not saying that Cub square barrels, 4 speed Bantams, points-in-sidecover C15s/B40s etc are to be excluded from Classics. Rather, since these bikes are eligible under current Specials rules they suggest owners engage with organizers, clubs & other competitors to encourage Classics to be run under the Specials eligibility/class (ie Pre68 cut-off instead of Pre65).

• Thus the Commission encourages guys to bring their square barrel Cubs, 4sp Bantams, points-in-sidecover C15/B40ss, 2-bolt Hon 90s, M10 Bultacos, Suzuki B100s etc & compete on them under the Classic 'umbrella'. They believe, like all of us, the more classics the better.

• With the Nationals in Qld this year, he noted it’s a golden opportunity for some initiative to be taken here were most of the regular classic competitors now are. He suggested that competitors contact the organizers who are running this year’s State & National titles & ask them to run the Classic titles under the sub-class that most suits the riders & is inclusive of what they are riding. (eg Pre68 Specials, if suitable)

• MA is reviewing the number of national championship classes and those that do not have regular competition across the country may lose their championship status, yet remain as classes for competition, or be removed completely. (see minute TL628 on the website above, where there are already moves afoot for 2017.)

• The Commission is continuously reviewing the rules for areas of improvement, in consultation with the State bodies & competitors, & believe that simplified eligibility criteria for Classic Trials is worth pursuing, preferably with just one Classic class & one Post-Classic. Some of the sub-classifications under Classic appear to them to be redundant in Oz trials, eg heavyweight, lightweight, unit & pre-unit.


That sounds OK to me but how does it sound to others? Do their suggestions look like a workable solution?

[Greg Harding]

Hi Everyone,

Thank you John for going to the effort of researching this and presenting the facts.

We have seen in previous threads where the topic gets high jacked and it goes round and round in circles getting nowhere. Hopefully Classic Competitors can see past comments from Non Classic Competitors and work together with the Trials Commission to find common ground.

For the record I am not a Classic Competitor, but I do really enjoy watching old bikes and Gentlemen competing on diverse machinery!

That sounds OK to me but how does it sound to others? Do their suggestions look like a workable solution?

John, I am with you and yes their suggestions look workable to me! Looking forward to seeing more Gentlemen on more old bikes.

[JC1]

Gents, MA encourages feedback on its Commission minutes/recommendations before end of June:

"Feedback from individual MA members and MA associated clubs, as well as SCB’s, on the recommendations contained in the minutes is highly encouraged and should be submitted in writing to Motorcycling Australia by COB Friday 01 July 2016."

"There is also a feedback form available to streamline any submissions."

The form is available here:
http://www.ma.org.au/index.php?id=125&u ... 2-85123889

Click on "Commission/Committee Feedback Form"

For the minutes/recommendations themselves, click on "Trial Commission minutes March/April"

Whether you agree or disagree with the Commission recommendations, either way you are entitled to submit feedback.