Can someone expand what is required / expected (of the coach & also the junior) in order to qualify for the 4T endorsement? Is the focus on the bigger motor & ability for jnr to handle power differences eg vs an 80 or 125 or 200, or is it about the skill differences 2T vs 4T ? if so how many accedited coaches in Aust currently know / ride 4T's?
Basically why was this endorsement considered necessary & what skills are required?
TIA for any info.
Junior 250cc 4t endorsement?
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keithj
- Expert participant
- Posts: 291
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 10:00 am
- Club: OMCC
- Bike: Gas Gas 250
- Location: sunny melb
Cadman,
Good questions!
Firstly, be assured that numerous people have had the argument with MA regarding the relevance of this clause to mototrials. None have been successful; we (mototrials) are stuck with it.
The actual requirement for the endorsement is that the Junior rider perform 5 hours coaching on a 125cc and/or 250cc capacity bike. That's it - there are no specific skills to cover off, no modules, no checklist. Just 5 hours coaching. And as noted that 5 hours can be the same 5 hours they need for their licence renewal.
The rationale is that the larger capacity bikes are potentially a whole new world for a junior rider - most likely it will be a larger frame and wheels, therefore heavier, and obviously more power. For a younger junior at least it wouldn't hurt to cover a few basics the first time the rider moves to the bigger bike, like ensuring they can pick up a fallen bike, start it, manouver it, etc.
Another point you make is around 'what does the coaching cover', and I'll answer that generally.
- for first time riders there is the Kickstart program. There is a mototrials lesson plan, which you can view at the bottom of the FAQ article here. It covers basic rules, safety gear, motorcycle controls, starting, braking, cornering, officials, etc.
- Kickstart participants MUST do that lesson and have the modules signed off in their book.
- For all other junior riders undergoing coaching, ie for their licence renewal, the coaching follows no set format and can cover whatever skills the rider and/or coach agree on. This is where the 4T endorsement coaching comes in - once a few basic things are covered, I would simply do 'normal' coaching with the rider.
So for your last question, there is no requirement for a coach to have any specific 4T skills per se.
And as for the number of accredited coaches in Australia? That's a good question! I believe there are 3 in Victoria; no idea about the other states.
We obviously need more, so check out your SCB websites for details and dates. A quick check shows some upcoming courses in Vic for $150, nothing in NSW, and no dates but mention of the course being free in Qld. So there's obviously differences between states!
Great questions cadman!
KYFU,
Good questions!
Firstly, be assured that numerous people have had the argument with MA regarding the relevance of this clause to mototrials. None have been successful; we (mototrials) are stuck with it.
The actual requirement for the endorsement is that the Junior rider perform 5 hours coaching on a 125cc and/or 250cc capacity bike. That's it - there are no specific skills to cover off, no modules, no checklist. Just 5 hours coaching. And as noted that 5 hours can be the same 5 hours they need for their licence renewal.
The rationale is that the larger capacity bikes are potentially a whole new world for a junior rider - most likely it will be a larger frame and wheels, therefore heavier, and obviously more power. For a younger junior at least it wouldn't hurt to cover a few basics the first time the rider moves to the bigger bike, like ensuring they can pick up a fallen bike, start it, manouver it, etc.
Another point you make is around 'what does the coaching cover', and I'll answer that generally.
- for first time riders there is the Kickstart program. There is a mototrials lesson plan, which you can view at the bottom of the FAQ article here. It covers basic rules, safety gear, motorcycle controls, starting, braking, cornering, officials, etc.
- Kickstart participants MUST do that lesson and have the modules signed off in their book.
- For all other junior riders undergoing coaching, ie for their licence renewal, the coaching follows no set format and can cover whatever skills the rider and/or coach agree on. This is where the 4T endorsement coaching comes in - once a few basic things are covered, I would simply do 'normal' coaching with the rider.
So for your last question, there is no requirement for a coach to have any specific 4T skills per se.
And as for the number of accredited coaches in Australia? That's a good question! I believe there are 3 in Victoria; no idea about the other states.
We obviously need more, so check out your SCB websites for details and dates. A quick check shows some upcoming courses in Vic for $150, nothing in NSW, and no dates but mention of the course being free in Qld. So there's obviously differences between states!
Great questions cadman!
KYFU,
Keith.
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Hey guys,
Juniors require endorsement (allowance by a coach due to above-average control skills) in most motorcycle sports to move from the 85cc classes to the 125cc classes, which allows 250cc 4-strokes. This is due to the higher level of competition, and frequent higher entrant numbers. They do not allow riders under 17 into any higher capacities in Australia. This is not the case with Trials, being that juniors are unrestricted.
I don't think this is a bad thing for trials to be honest; it's an opportunity for young riders to learn from different sources throughout the year and gain knowledge from people they often wouldn't get assistance from. For instance, Trials Victoria's Junior Development Days allow for roughly 5 hours of tutelage in their current format per day; all it really means is that we're going to need to get some of us accredited.
We should check if we are able to skip directly over the rules that are totally unrequired for Trials as they have very little revelance for our sport and riders. Mayby we can produce our own modified version for trials?
What we could possibly try to do would be to get free/discounted practice day permits from this new requirement to ensue clubs are happier to run these days; otherwise it could be argued that it is just another money-making scheme from MA.
Regards,
Smiddy
Juniors require endorsement (allowance by a coach due to above-average control skills) in most motorcycle sports to move from the 85cc classes to the 125cc classes, which allows 250cc 4-strokes. This is due to the higher level of competition, and frequent higher entrant numbers. They do not allow riders under 17 into any higher capacities in Australia. This is not the case with Trials, being that juniors are unrestricted.
I don't think this is a bad thing for trials to be honest; it's an opportunity for young riders to learn from different sources throughout the year and gain knowledge from people they often wouldn't get assistance from. For instance, Trials Victoria's Junior Development Days allow for roughly 5 hours of tutelage in their current format per day; all it really means is that we're going to need to get some of us accredited.
We should check if we are able to skip directly over the rules that are totally unrequired for Trials as they have very little revelance for our sport and riders. Mayby we can produce our own modified version for trials?
What we could possibly try to do would be to get free/discounted practice day permits from this new requirement to ensue clubs are happier to run these days; otherwise it could be argued that it is just another money-making scheme from MA.
Regards,
Smiddy
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keithj
- Expert participant
- Posts: 291
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 10:00 am
- Club: OMCC
- Bike: Gas Gas 250
- Location: sunny melb
Some more good points from Smiddy...
Exactly. And when you think about it, 5 hours coaching is stuff all - all that is required is that an accredited coach sign off those hours in the rider's log book.
The only one that is not relevent is the 4T part - and we've tried, to no avail. But again, it's not that much of an overhead when you think about it. The kid has to do 5 hours coaching *anyway*, so just do it on a 4T.
The permit for the KickStart program is free. But that's a once off program for first timers. Coaches can organise individual permits for other sessions at $15 each rider from MA. Which may be good if a club needs to get a few kids through for licence renewals.
And as Smiddy points out, here in Victoria we have four Junior Development days through the year, the day before an event, all of which are covered by the event permit.
I personally think it'll be a good thing for our Juniors...
I don't think this is a bad thing for trials to be honest; it's an opportunity for young riders to learn from different sources throughout the year and gain knowledge from people they often wouldn't get assistance from.
Exactly. And when you think about it, 5 hours coaching is stuff all - all that is required is that an accredited coach sign off those hours in the rider's log book.
We should check if we are able to skip directly over the rules that are totally unrequired for Trials as they have very little revelance for our sport and riders. Mayby we can produce our own modified version for trials?
The only one that is not relevent is the 4T part - and we've tried, to no avail. But again, it's not that much of an overhead when you think about it. The kid has to do 5 hours coaching *anyway*, so just do it on a 4T.
What we could possibly try to do would be to get free/discounted practice day permits from this new requirement
The permit for the KickStart program is free. But that's a once off program for first timers. Coaches can organise individual permits for other sessions at $15 each rider from MA. Which may be good if a club needs to get a few kids through for licence renewals.
And as Smiddy points out, here in Victoria we have four Junior Development days through the year, the day before an event, all of which are covered by the event permit.
I personally think it'll be a good thing for our Juniors...
Keith.
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