Whats the rules for minders at a observed trial

[bigdamo]

Can a minder touch the motorcycle but not actually pull or hold the motorcycle without loss of points.

If they can touch the motorcycle with out loss of points how would an observer tell the difference between touching and holding?

I would have thought if the minder just touched the bike it was a loss of points?

[PA]

I have always taken it as a 5 if the minder touched the bike or rider. Reading the Moto-Trials section of the MOMS there is no reference to the minder touching the bike.

Click here to download the Moto-Trials section of the MOMS.

It is certainly something that should be included.

[wazzawood]

I don't have an answer, but i'll share this..

Whenever I've been 'catcher' I've always taken care to NOT touch the bike unless the rider is DEFINATELY.. err.. screwed. Because I always thought that if I touched the bike, the rider would get a five. And probably get upset with me.

As an observer I'd 5 any rider who's minder touched the bike... unless it was clearly accidental/unintentional and did not advantage the rider. I'd never expect an argument from either the rider or minder - as this is widely accepted as the rule. But I'd like to have something in writing to back it up!

I'd hate to be the steward if this came up. Messy.

Wazza

[paulm]

I'm sure the backroom lawyers will have a field day with this thought…

I haven’t referenced the rules but from memory GCR's always state that;

a. A minder is considered, for the purposes of the event, a competitor.
b. If competitor dismounts the machine, i.e. both feet on the same side of the machine, it’s a 5.
c. If the minder touches the bike, unless he/she is straddling the bike at the time, he/she has dismounted – therefore it’s a 5

Yes ? no ?

Paul M

[PA]

This is the only reference to Minders in the MOMS.

23.7.4 Minder - Moto-trials
23.7.4.1 Each competitor in an event may have a Minder who, for the purposes of these Rules, will be a competitor.
23.7.4.2 A Minder must be identified as such in accordance with the requirements of the SR.

[paulm]

Cheers Peter

There rests the case for the Prosecution M’ Lord.

Paul M.

[keithj]

I personally would rule that a minder touching a bike is illegal under this rule:

MoMS 4.3.2.1:

4.3.2.1 In any event during the course of a meeting, a Steward or Clerk of Course may fine, exclude, impose penalty or time points on, or relegate, any competitor, if:
<snip>
d) The competitor receives outside assistance other than:
i) By a relevant official at the start of an event, or
ii) In the interests of safety,

That may raise a bigger question of "what is outside assistance?"

Think about that one for a minute folks.... there are implications of the interpretation of 4.3.2.1(d) that people may not want to know about. May be easier to look the other way

[bigdamo]

I personally would rule that a minder touching a bike is illegal under this rule:

MoMS 4.3.2.1:

4.3.2.1 In any event during the course of a meeting, a Steward or Clerk of Course may fine, exclude, impose penalty or time points on, or relegate, any competitor, if:
<snip>
d) The competitor receives outside assistance other than:
i) By a relevant official at the start of an event, or
ii) In the interests of safety,

That may raise a bigger question of "what is outside assistance?"

Think about that one for a minute folks.... there are implications of the interpretation of 4.3.2.1(d) that people may not want to know about. May be easier to look the other way

Keith is not a minder a registered competitor?

Sometimes I wonder if all the minders helping the riders are registered?

Could i get a minder to help me on my clubman lines?

Keith Marchant could have done with a minder last sunday. Hope your alright Keith

[PA]

4.3.2.1 In any event during the course of a meeting, a Steward or Clerk of Course may fine, exclude, impose penalty or time points on, or relegate, any competitor, if The competitor receives outside assistance other than In the interests of safety.

When a minder grabs a bike on top of some cliff and the rider regains control then proceeds on it could be argued that it was in the interest of safety.

I think the Moto-Trial rules should be amended to include if the bike or rider is touched by another person then a 5 point penalty is applied.

In the meantime this could be added into the Sup Regs to ensure this loop hole was not exploited.

[keithj]

PA, agree. That is a loophole.

Bigdamo, minders *should* be registered competitors, but this is not always the case.
Eg. how many dads have you seen running around after their kids? There's a few in Vic, who don't ride themselves, and I know they're not officially entered.

Registered or not, it doesn't matter - as far as 4.3.2.1 is concerned, the issue is that the competitor has benefitted from "outside assistance."

There's still more at stake here to think about though... anyone care to comment?