Trials Australia Forums

Hi Howard,

I’m currently replacing the worn bearings in the suspension Rear Suspension Links and the rear wheel bearings.

As my bike is sat up on it’s bash plate, with the rear wheel off, and the swing arm dropped right down, I was just thinking that a bit more height on the rear end would be a nice improvement. As I’m not one to smash of too many square boulders, I’d get more bash plate clearance, and a slightly steeper angle on the forks would give me tighter turns.

I’ve seen after market kits for the Cota 315 which replaces the delta link and supposively improves the suspension but I don’t know the details.
I was wondering if you knew of anything that I could get for my 290 to do something simular?

What’s your thoughts on this?.


Best of balance.

Neo.

A lift kit for a trials bike? Next you'll want 36" mudders and a bull bar....

A bull bar....... now that's a great idea !!!!

Neo,
Modify your technique, rather than the bike. If your having ground clearance problems. How much more will you need ???? 50mm. 100mm To gain this will cause more problems than it solves. Your centre of gravity, as well as the bikes is much higher, and with the steeper steering angle you will find some weird handling options. Especially on drop offs !!!!
These bikes have evolved, over many years. Recommend you don`t change a thing. Catch me at the Manly first round, and I`ll get you up and over any obstacle, you`ll ever encounter, up to B grade.
Cheers,
ShercoH.
PS. You are going to the Manly round aren`t you !!!! See you there GGG.

Hi Howard,

Yep I know you’re right. I guess I just like to fiddle with these things to keep my mind occupied. – Much better than thinking about work!!

“Manly first round” – That’s at Pacific Park on the 17th April - right

GGG and I would love the opportunity to meet and pick up some pointers on how to...... “Climb every B grade mountain” – And it’s got to be better than watching all my Julie Andrews Trials Training videos !!

I was debating about going to this event, because GGG would miss yet another days practise (I thought only competitors were allowed to ride on competition days?). But now its “Manly first round” here we come!

By the way, we spent Easter camping at Pacific Park and GGG rode down that big bumpy hill she spoke of previously, without any prompting from me. I think it was your Post that gave her the courage. And now she says it was easy!! – Thanks Howard.


Best regards.

Neo

Hi All,

Yes for those of you that’s followed TA long enough, this thread (originally posted on Mar 29th) is back from the grave!!!!

I’m going to start by saying that I get good advice from everyone on TA. And Howard there is no disrespect intended to your superb technical advice. But there are times when “a mans gotta do what a mans gotta do” (and I like to fiddle too ).

Yes despite everyone’s advice I’ve been out and had a new delta link made up, which has raised the back-end a considerable amount (Details are Patent (or beer) Pending).

Why, why, why?!!…I hear you say.
Well I just had to test my theory and after two weeks of testing here are some of the advantages, I, and others, who have ridden my Sherco, have noticed.

1. The steeper fork rake/angle makes tighter turns so much easier. Howard I greatly appreciate what you (and others) have said but please consider this. When you make a turn you lean a bikes weight (say to the right) and the equal and apposing weight has to be put on the left in order to maintain balance. So consequently the lighter and smaller your body (and bum) weight is, the less you can lean a bike and maintain balance at the same time. That’s why a steeper fork rake is more important to me than those who carry that large counterbalancing pizza weight at the top of their legs!!

2. Steep climbs are much easier. The front stays down better and the traction is slightly improved.

3. Tracking a line is degraded, but the flip side to this is that changing or correcting your line is much easier and quicker than ever before. And it gets me out of trouble easier this way.

4. Drop-off angle/capability seems barely effected. But I have to admit I haven’t pushed this one to it’s limits. As I don’t like the pain of finding out at what point it goes a..e over t.t!!!

5. Cat jumps land with better stability as the front and back springs seem to share the load more evenly.

6. The pegs are slightly tilted forward but I’m actually finding that more comfortable than flat!

7. The bike has much more ground clearance and easily steps down many rocks that I would have previously smacked the bash plate.


So all in all guys, I love it …… And here’s your opportunity to shoot me down.


Best of balance.

Ok Neo, so you finally did it. I figured you would.
If doing that change made all those things better for the way you ride, what is stopping you making it even higher at the rear? Or higher at the front too if things start to become a bit too vertical on steep drop-offs?

I do know what you are saying about the clearance making some things better because I used to ride a TY250Z which for those who haven't put one beside a modern trials bike was about 75mm higher than a Beta Rev3 under the bashplate and footpegs. Yes it was great to cruise over slightly higher rocks than a Beta could without having to exert myself. Unfortunately there are many rocks even higher than the TY250Z could cruise over and proper technique was still needed 95% of the time on obstacles. When it came to turns and balancing, the Beta and other modern bikes leave the high centre-of-gravity TY250Z for dead. If you want to win at a trial, balance and turning beat ground clearance hands down, because that is where most points are lost, and not on crossing modest obstacles.

I would lower my Beta if I thought I could get away with it but the footpegs are so low already that the outside of my inside boot drags in turns. I have lowered my twinshock bike footpegs and have lowered the front as far as I can to improve the handling and balance (and it works great).
David

OK, well said David,

Look I don’t really think this mod is the “be-all-and-end-all” And I understand that it only suits my riding style (or lack of, that is) at the moment. But I never do anything to my Sherco that I cannot undo easily (hopefully when my style progresses). What I should have really done was had the frame cut and re-welded at the front. And had the fork rake changed. But this was far too radical for me.

I do appreciate that the centre of gravity needs to be as low as possible. And I did not really intend to increase the ground clearance. It was actually a knock-on effect.
But for me, at this stage, (a non-competitive novice) the ride feels good (and that’s not just my own opinion) and I’d invite anyone to check it out for themselves.

Just to add a few of points:-
1. I have lowered the front forks yokes an extra 5mm on the tubes.
2. The later models use a different delta link and a different shock (I suspect longer) along with longer forks. And I’ve noticed that the angle/drop of the swing arm is very simular to my 02 Sherco now.
3. Before opening my mouth I ran this concept past Wayne Thais of Sherco. To my great surprise he did not call me crazy but he commented that I was working on a “good project”

I personally believe that there is no such thing as a bike that suits all types of people (shape or style). And I can’t see how that would be possible. A manufacture has to make his bike with +/-“Mr Average” (his interpretation) in mind. Which I am defiantly not!!


Best of balance.

Neo

Hmmm..... a bit quite in this thread……

No BJ, Howard or Scorps…and even David has deserted me.

Hope I haven’t said anything to offend anyone (again!!).


Best of balance.

Neo

Neo wrote:I personally believe that there is no such thing as a bike that suits all types of people (shape or style). And I can’t see how that would be possible. A manufacture has to make his bike with +/-“Mr Average” (his interpretation) in mind. Which I am defiantly not!!
Best of balance.
Neo

Hi Neo
The only thing I think I want to add is the bit about manufacturers making bikes to suit Edna Everage. I just wish they would. From my perspective some of the modern trials bikes are very well designed for very highly skilled riders but if the rest of us can actually ride them to the best of our ability it is probably more good luck than anything else.
You seem to have a thing about how light the steering is but for me, most of the current trials bikes available here are way too zappy in the motor department. There are only a few new bikes that spring to mind as being OK in the motor department such as the Scorpa SY250, Scorpa TYS125/175 and the Beta Rev3 200. Yes I've ridden a 2006 REV3 250 and found it was still quite zippy despite being "toned down" from last year.
I've learned that in the UK, Betas and some others come standard with additional flywheel weights compared to ours and other engine mods are available for another brand to quieten down the response of the motors. I guess we in OZ don't get these versions because our terrain is grippier than in the UK but for older and less experienced riders they would be a better bet. Some of the riders in my area with 250 and 270 Betas have fitted additional flywheel weights and cover spacers made locally to tone down the motors a bit.
Anyway that enough ranting for tonight. I hope you continue to experiment successfully with your bike and keep the rest of us informed and entertained with how it is going.
David