c grade lines

[pcurtis]

Hi all

This is one of those topics that comes up every few years. It seems to me you should never criticize section setters or any volunteer officials,they are out there giving up there own time to set a trial and if they hear to much whinging they might think twice about doing it again.

There is a big difference in abilities of riders in any one grade to satisfy everyone especially the larger grades like Clubman and C. The blue lines have to cater for young riders coming through as well as ex A graders in Veterans which makes it much harder. I did ride a SQTA trial a few years ago and there system does work well although being on the older side I did find it confusing at first,but being a non affilliated club they can do what they want (they do do it well,you can tell by the large entries) The trouble is we have to run the grades by the rule book or have the rules changed.

My suggestion for Clubman and C grade is to vary the standard of section in those 2 grades at each trial. I think most of the complaints are when its all to hard or all to easy. On the white line you could have one third of the sections a trail ride,another third a bit harder and the other third getting up to an easy C gade standard.
Likewise on the blue line have one third an easy C standard another third a bit harder and the rest a hard C grade standard and make one section hard but not dangerous to seperate the better Veterans.

Its a fine line setting sections to the right standard,I set many a trial in my younger years including Aussie Titles and many times got it right and just as many got it wrong. All we can do is get out there and help set sections and then you can put in your own opinon on the day.

Cheers Peter

[Markjw]

All good, but, MA need to look at the way they frame the rules. There is a clear indication here, and obviously back in time, that a lot of riders would like and better way to step up lower grades. Trials in not like most other motorcycle disciplines, and that is that that trials have (mostly) natural terrain sections that are never the same. It is not like going to Eastern Creek or Phillip Island and ride around but slower.
MA need to look at this and address these concerns or more and more "fun" trials that are unaffiliated will pop up.
From all the comments here there is a concern about having an in between grade (clubman to C grade) and not one of how section setters set a course. All the section setters and volunteers do a wonderful job and without their skills there would be no sections or trials.

[Darren Robinson]

HI guys thank you for the comments i was not having a go at the setters they are hard enough to find ,just trying to get a more consistant c grade line here in victoria sundays section 9 was great no danger but few riders scoring 0 and it took 5 of some good riders . i won clubman 2yrs ago then rode my ty in twinshock(or c grade) but found it very hard on the bike and me. Had three other riders step up to c grade as well, 1 returned to clubman the other 2 have not rode for the past year. i do understand the blue line is used for a lot of classes maybe split them between C and C+ but i think we need to look at it to keep riders moving through the sport and not dropping out .

[FM350]

Way forward is to provide 50/50 route, which is split between C and clubman sections. On the harder C sections, 50/50 riders take the clubman line.

[Stu]

Ive baulked at going to C grade for many years, both while riding the TY and now the 03 Sherco. Its a big step up in NSW from Clubbie to C Grade, and its not just saying to man up and do it! I like the idea of a section or 2 that has a selection of 50/50 within that section. I know that we have the whole section to ride in and make our own lines, but its the in between that I cant get to. Ive been riding for many years and the Denman Club has the right idea, open the section up, dont be squeezed in so tight, sure you can have the splits tighter, but give some room to those who cant bounce and air turn.

[mike-b]

Hi

I have lived in Aus for the last 6 years after a long time in the UK were i used to ride trials (last trial about 9 years ago) and have just bought a cheap beta 250 rev3 to start riding again after a few visits to local trials and have signed up for the 'C grade after looking at the clubmans sections which i thought were to easy.
I am just out to ride for fun and get home in one piece but clubman looked to easy to me, maybe because of how i could ride before and not taking into account i have not rode a trial for 9 years so i will have a better idear after sunday.
I like the idear you could do a 50/50 course so it would be the hard clubman sections and some of the easy sections on the C course so you have a bit more of a work out and help to get you up to C grade level and therefore lesson the chance of getting hurt as there seems to be a big jump between the two.
Just my thoughts

Mike

[FM350]

Seems a real shame more clubs in the UK have not adopted the idea of 50/50 section route marking. Without this it often means sections are either too easy or too hard, and this is something that leads directly to reduced entries, and sometimes introduction of inappropriate bike classes to make up the numbers. Other than a single 50/50 marker at the beginning of the section where the easier route is to be ridden, its no more work to set out, than whats being used currently, and with 2 way 50/50 split means that clubs can easily provide 5 possible routes from 3 marked routes on the ground.

[ianrogers]

Its really very simple, just look at the scores at the end of the event, they will tell you if the sections were too hard or not and then address them accordingly at the next event if they were. Alas there is no silver bullet that guarnatees the same degree of difficulty for any lines in a trials event, as someone alluded to with the Phillip Island analogy earlier, it's not like we use the same sections everytime, although they have been doing it in Scotland for the past 75 years. In my humble opinion there are far too many grades in affiliated events anyway, and when you throw the added associated classes into the mix i don't know how clubs can afford to buy all the trophies that it seems everyone is in line for winning. May as well add another one to the ever expanding list.
There has been a couple of mentions of SQTA's split Division's that we introduced to address the very problem that this thread has been discussing, i.e. a Clubman/"C" Grade Division 4 and a "C"Grade/"B" Grade Division 2 that allows riders to make the step up from one to another a gradual one. Div 2 has become an unofficial Greybeards hangout and Div 4 an unashamadely "the older they get the better they were" old boys club, but that certainly hasn't stopped riders progressing through on there way to Div's 1 & 3 respectively. Div 4 rides predominantly Clubman lines with a sign at the start of up to 50% of the sectuions indicating that they have to ride the Blue arrows in those and Div 2 ride the Blue arrows unless there is a yellow arrowed sign telling them to ride them in the same mix. Altzhiemers does play it's part sometimes, as Peter Curtis alluded to earlier, but that's all part of tapestry of the day. It has certainly played a part in extending the careers of a lot of riders who had thrown the towel in and Div 4 is probably the most competive division of them all.
In regard to section setting, there are three of us that adjudicate whether a section is set too hard or not and who have the absolute final right of refusal, no matter who has set it, and everyone knows that and no one gets precious about the fact that we may change there lines as the runs are on the board and when you consider we average 65 riders an event who return en masse every month to ride for fun again we must be doing something right. We have stuffed the odd section up over time but admit it and readdress it at the next event.
There has never been an AUS/NZ standard created for trials over the past 30 years that I know of so don't expect one to be published anytime soon so that said it is up to every individual club, no mater what side of the fence you sit, to adjudicate your own degrees of difficulty with the ultimate guage being exactly what Geoff Lewis said, if everyone is happy and smiling at the end of the event the section setters must have got it right.
Good luck and keep the balance.
Ian R

[pcurtis]

Hi Ian...my altzheimers hasn't been offically diagnosed (yet)...keep up the good work

Peter

[David Lahey]

In regard to section setting, there are three of us that adjudicate whether a section is set too hard or not and who have the absolute final right of refusal, no matter who has set it, and everyone knows that and no one gets precious about the fact that we may change there lines as the runs are on the board and when you consider we average 65 riders an event who return en masse every month to ride for fun again we must be doing something right. We have stuffed the odd section up over time but admit it and readdress it at the next event.
There has never been an AUS/NZ standard created for trials over the past 30 years that I know of so don't expect one to be published anytime soon so that said it is up to every individual club, no mater what side of the fence you sit, to adjudicate your own degrees of difficulty with the ultimate guage being exactly what Geoff Lewis said, if everyone is happy and smiling at the end of the event the section setters must have got it right.
Good luck and keep the balance.
Ian R

Ian's technique for consistency is also used with the Rocky Trials Club events - there are two section severity Moderators (I'm one of them). After each trial I review the scores, feedback from riders and look at any DNFs to see what happened. This is used to judge how well we went at getting the degree of difficulty right.

We currently manage with only four lines but have run five lines when we had riders of Expert standard.

One benchmark I use is to aim for the winner in each class scoring 20 points or less per day of competition. Another benchmark is to have every rider finish the event.